World class players

[CreamPuff]

Did anyone else on here play with Men The Master,
Layne Flack, and Phil Hellmuth last night on UltimateBet? (10/20)

Man oh man.... World Class?

Phil and Men were all over the place shorthanded.
Talk about over-playing their hands.
Men in particular...He loses a dime, then proceeds
to go on tilt....I'm not talking subtle tilt as
John Feeney calls it...This was full out: never lay down
a hand in the blind regardless of action..3 Betting
every opportunity preflop.
Phil was almost as bad.

I don't care how many drinks they had, they just basically
didn't have world class CARD SENSE. They were avg. at best.

Oh...Layne. He earned my respect.....Very good player.
(almost fill guilty grouping him with these guys in
my opening line.)

I had always heard good things about Men (all around), and that Phil is a sucker in the ring games.

But other than tournie play, these 2 must both lose a
shitload every year in the side games.

No wonder I can't beat tournaments..You must have to
play like an idiot at the later stages.

[Glenn]

I looked at the 10-20 6 max last night and saw a game with Phil H., Howard L. and PLAYB0Y. There were much easier games other places online to say the least...although if Phil went on tilt....

Do you know for sure that MenTheMaster is actually Men the Master? A lot of notables play on that site under their real names but i don't think he is on their list.

[Zele]

This certainly could be the case. I've heard the same things about tournament players playing in ring games, and Hellmuth in particular. But also consider that shorthanded play requires a much more aggressive style, and that these players may be making decision on a level that you are not privy to, because of their own knowledge of each other. Feeney's book ITPM has some great chapters on how crazy expert short-handed play can look from the outside.

[CreamPuff]

"... on how crazy expert short-handed play can look from the outside."

Believe me, I play 5-6 handed nearly every single night.
Have seen and are famaliar with many winning styles.
These 2 guys definetely were not at a higher level, however,
I realize there may have been external factors such
as drinking and/or tilting.

And to answer the other guys question about being the
real Men, Phil told one of the players it was.

As a side note, I've played Phil heads up in the past
briefly online and IMO he's got no shot in that dept. either.

I'm kind of curious to know if the guys even good
at live no-limit. Doesn't anyone know if he's ever
played against the Colma crew?

Oh well...Enough Phil bashing I guess.

[Taxidriver]

Phil Helmuth play well in ring games! playd with him several times on Ultimate bet ,and i think he play good! Tight/agressive and little tricky.. .. but as you says maybe hes drunk or maybe it is to low? dunno

[GrannyMae]

3 Betting
every opportunity preflop.
Phil was almost as bad.



i don't understand.. this is GOOD for UB?

so, an unsuspecting player that plays 10-20 because that is the highest limit they are comfortable with must contend with drunken WCP's that have no value for the amounts of money wagered at this level??

sounds like a bad business practice to me..

Yeah...these guys all suck...makes me wonder why no one offers to play them heads up in a 100k freeze out...