For you smart lags out there

[amoeba]

Fimbul, if you see this I hope you reply.

Anyways, I've been trying to raise my vpip but it just doesn't seem to work. my VPIP at 6max at party is about 18. my pfr is about 9.9 so I got the aggressive part down.

now, here's how I generally play. all pocket pairs are played, AJ, AQ, AK, KQ, occasionally KJ raised if first in ( assuming I'm not in blinds, etc...). suited connectors 1 gappers and occasionally 2 gappers played in CO or button ( typically raised). AXs only played on hte button or completing from SB.

Yet playing this way still seems to yield a VPIP of about 18.

So all you smart lags out there, what cards are you playing in addition to get your vpip up to say 25% ?

[kiddo]

Im a fixed limit shorthanded player but excatly this questions comes up in SH-forum all the time. Its not so much that u have lower standards as you understand when u can play a pretty shaky hand for profit. You add hands that you only play under the right circumstances, say Axo in CO. This is partly because u read the other players better and partly because you play better postflop. U can win a lot from bad players postflop, u dont always have to come in with the best hand, you just win more when u hit and lose less when you dont.

[amoeba]

AXo in the CO? do you raise this or is this limped?

[fimbulwinter]

I'm sure you're not too tight in the early positions, that's a very hard thing to do. honestly folding AJ up front (as a random example), unless you have a mega-lag table image, isn't bad.

Try this:

When on the button or CO, play everything connected/ semiconnected. play two gappers if there is 200 or more BB in front of you limped into the pot to win. Play sooted pictures to Q high (but be smart paying these) and any of the above, including twogappers.

If there's one limper to you, raise every time. if there are two, call with the drawing hands and raise with normal snae raising hands.

for stealing the blinds play almost anything except complete garbage J4o etc. make it so the blinds expect to see you raise when it's folded to you.


The real key to having a higher VP$IP is button and CO play. Especially with new deeper stacks, a lot more hands became valuable with position, so go ahead and play them. also, complete the SB a lot more as the implied odds of completing like 86o are higher now.

fim

[fimbulwinter]

especially with the deep stacks, i'm not a fan of Ax in a pot im not raising. that kind of hand is good for stealing but not much else; playing dominated hands in NL is hugely costly where it is les costly in limit.

fim

[amoeba]

so with these suited pictures and nonsuited connectors, I should raise if limped to me but limp if first one in?

[fimbulwinter]

well, think about it this way:
your hand doesn't figure to be best, but if called you still have a good shot of sucking out to a better hand. so basically you're preflop semibluffing by representing a strong made hand when you hold a draw.

for a semibluff to be good, if must have fold equity. if there is one weak limper you raise every time cos you'll take it down 30-50 percent of the time. if there are many limpers, you won't get anyone to fold and you'll just isolate the best hand, so you limp.

if it's folded to you on CO/button, it's raise or fold as the best value for most hands is taking the blinds.

in the middle is where you just have to play g00t.

fim

[amoeba]

I just don't see that many times where everybody folds to a pfr.

If I get 1 caller, I pretty much have to bet the flop as well like 80% of the time when checked to right? even if I completely miss.

[DoomSlice]

Build and buy, eventually you get a hand where build and buy turns into build and take down a big pot when you have the goods.

[poboy]

Well I'm not saying this is smart but I'll play all the hands you mentioned plus Kxs from any position. I'll also play any 2 from the button if I can limp. JMO

[amoeba]

what do you mean by build and buy?

[DoomSlice]

Build the pot then take a stab at it... like you said, 80% of the time you'll be forced to bet with nothing, but depending on opponents (that part is important) you should know about how often people will fold to your continuation bet. Eventually you will run across a time where people get fed up with your strategy and start playing back at you, at which point you can just wait till you have something that beats them.

[amoeba]

if you build a pot then take a stab at it, doesn't it make the stab quite costly?

[Rocaix]

[ QUOTE ]
if you build a pot then take a stab at it, doesn't it make the stab quite costly?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not if your only firing once, and your bet is about 2/3 Pot. Also you have to be smart about when to fire, if the board is competely rags. Players are far less likely to believe you have a hand and will call often with any piece of the board or even over cards.

Of course if you raise and get called in 3 or 4 spots and whiff at the flop then it's better to just give up, even if it's checked to you.

If it's heads up and checked to me, I would fire 95% of the time. The exceptions being 1) flopping the nuts or near nuts 2) to mix it up a bit if I've been overly Laggy or 3) Occasionally If I connect with the flop on a strong TPTK type hand and the board is drawless, I check behind to throw off my opponent.

[TheWorstPlayer]

I just wanted to throw in the fact that the general wisdom is not to steal from very loose blinds because there is small chance that the steal will work. However. At Party, with the new structure, I have seen as the norm that people in the blinds (both blinds) will easily call a 4BB raise from the Button, just to fold on the flop unless they hit, seemingly, top pair or better. I cannot tell you how many times I end up making 8BB instead of 1.5BB because people 'defend' their blind so readily now. I love it!

[jonnyUCB]

most depend on what you think your opponent calls raises with? Does he call with just broadway? Do aces stick to him? Any two? This is especially important information to know about the two people to the left of you (blinds you will steal), and the three to your right (people you will raise when limping).

An ace high flop is most likely to be checked so dont necessarily bet. A J high flop vs a smart player is a safe stab - whoever lets overcards get a free card here is going to get stacked eventually. Also, if they are persistent in calling your flop bets, the turn can provide some help (if an A or K drops they can put u on AK and fold to another bet - this depends on your image, if you've been seen playing any two smart players and call stations alike will call you down). Are they passive or will they play back like a smart player? This help determines whether to fire on the turn, say if theres a draw on the board and it blanks after they call the flop. This is all assuming a HU pot, though i will steal in position vs 2 or 3 opponents depending on the board. Q23 with two to a suit for instance - unless your opponents are tricky to ch/r with top pair i dont see their checks indicating anything but weakness.

[Triumph36]

The key to making a LAG strategy work short-handed is ensuring that 1: you buy (or have already) the button and 2: you keep at it.

The typical NL wisdom is not to play with trap hands like QT and K9, but if you have steal equity both pre-flop and post-flop, I say raise with them if you're playing against non-tricky blinds and it's been folded around to you. Suited connectors I don't like so much because they have less showdown value, and it is unlikely you get paid off if either the straight or flush hits.

The great thing about a LAG image is that players are often looking to trap but don't know how to do it from out of position. Let's say you raise it with KT, he calls in the BB. Flop comes 9 high, you bet, he calls. With that bet, you have very often bought yourself the turn and the river for free. If he leads at the turn, he probably has a hand, and you can let go of yours. And if he check-raises, even better, he doesn't even give you a chance to hit your free card to trap you.

Many players will also try weak leads post-flop when they sense that you are buying pots with pre-flop raises and post-flop bets with nothing. These can be raised to buy both the turn and the river, or to fire a second barrel on the turn.

Another key to LAG play is to bet even when you hit the top pair. But not every time, randomize your play a little. And obviously don't bet every time you've missed; depending on the flop, it's easy to see when the cards could fit someone's hand.

I don't see this as "LAG" play. Often even with ace high you will still have the best hand when you are betting a missed flop. I see this as the best way to getting your good hands paid off; while most players notice a player who raises a lot pre-flop, they will fail to recognize that your raises out of the blinds aren't KT or A4; they are AA, KK, or QQ. TAG play may work at 5 or 6 max, but I don't see it as particularly profitable. Too often my sets take down a tiny pot. It's how you play one pair and no pair hands that will determine your profit.

[Shaun]

[ QUOTE ]
especially with the deep stacks, i'm not a fan of Ax in a pot im not raising. that kind of hand is good for stealing but not much else; playing dominated hands in NL is hugely costly where it is les costly in limit.

fim

[/ QUOTE ]

I think not playing Axs in passive games or games with a lot of small raises is too tight. Yes it is dominated, but the idea is to fold when you have nothing more than top pair, and after you do it once it gets real easy. Flush over flush happens, and occasionally you will flop two pair and make a lot of money off of a player with a holding like AJ-AK.

[soah]

You're the only one that's said anything about Axs.

[AncientPC]

Play a lot looser in LP.

If they folded or there's only one limper to you, raise.

If there are a lot of limpers, limp.

It also depends a lot on the table / two players to your left.

When they start playing back at you on ragged flops, tighten up a bit. The next time you have a legitimate hand and do the same thing they'll pay you off.