ALL in BLIND??

[Cleveland Guy]

Playing a home game - I just got my QQ cracked by AJ - flop a J, river an A.

I am left with 430 chips, blinds are 200/400 - we are 3 handed. Top 2 pay 70% for 1st, 30% for 2nd.

The guy who double up through me now has about 2600 chips, the other guy has over 7000.

I am UTG/Button here. I decided to push blind - good play? Why or why not?

I have my reasons, not sure if they have merit, but what to see what others say.

[pooh74]

im not sure i understand...u mean they know you're pushing blind right? what purpose does that serve here where they can both call and check down and really not have much to lose? Next ur the BB...so which hand do you think you're more likely to be heads up?...cas thats ur major factor here...not your cards. Even isolating a player here with your stack is a toss up...to put it mildly, this is just left to chance and there's not much tactical maneuvering left.

p

[curtains]

I think it's a pretty bad play that is commonly made. What in the world are you gaining if you move allin blind here with something like 52o? The answer is nothing, you are 100% getting called by the Big blind (and often the small blind as well), and you'll be pot committed the very next hand even if you win.

The correct play is to look at your hand, and if it's reasonable, to then push, and if not fold and hope you get a good blind hand.

[Cleveland Guy]

BUMP?

[The Yugoslavian]

The only time I'd move allin blind was if someone poked out my eyes on the previous hand and I had no choice.

Yugoslav
(and even then I would very likely fold)

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
The only time I'd move allin blind was if someone poked out my eyes on the previous hand and I had no choice.

Yugoslav
(and even then I would very likely fold)

[/ QUOTE ]

there are times when moving in blind is correct, the ops situation is, however, not. here is why...your hand has no fold equity since it is the size of the blind. therefor, you are relying on hand equity alone, which in this situation is -EV, do you see why?

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only time I'd move allin blind was if someone poked out my eyes on the previous hand and I had no choice.

Yugoslav
(and even then I would very likely fold)

[/ QUOTE ]

there are times when moving in blind is correct, the ops situation is, however, not. here is why...your hand has no fold equity since it is the size of the blind. therefor, you are relying on hand equity alone, which in this situation is -EV, do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

There are plenty of situations where I'd push with any two cards. But I'd still look at them first -- this is my point. As far as having a psychological edge b/c I was doing it blind....well, it makes it pretty easy for my opponent to calculate his EV in the situation. I'd rather him at least *think* I have a top 90% hand, /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Yugoslav

[Texas Pete]

I like it. Basically you need to triple up. By not looking you entice SB to call. However, he should call anyway and they should both check you down to the end. It really doesn't matter what you do at this point.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only time I'd move allin blind was if someone poked out my eyes on the previous hand and I had no choice.

Yugoslav
(and even then I would very likely fold)

[/ QUOTE ]

there are times when moving in blind is correct, the ops situation is, however, not. here is why...your hand has no fold equity since it is the size of the blind. therefor, you are relying on hand equity alone, which in this situation is -EV, do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

There are plenty of situations where I'd push with any two cards. But I'd still look at them first -- this is my point. As far as having a psychological edge b/c I was doing it blind....well, it makes it pretty easy for my opponent to calculate his EV in the situation. I'd rather him at least *think* I have a top 90% hand, /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

fair enough...the point i was trying to make was that by going in blind he was taking a one in 3 chance that his cards would be good as before the flop you are a 1/x favorite to win the hand where x is the number of players at the table.

[Cleveland Guy]

[ QUOTE ]
I like it. Basically you need to triple up. By not looking you entice SB to call. However, he should call anyway and they should both check you down to the end. It really doesn't matter what you do at this point.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was my thinking here.

I need to triple up - if I fold this hand, then on the next hand the current SB will be the UTG/Button. He is not going to put money in the pot unless he has a very good hand - he'd likely be ahead of my random hand at this point.

So if I fold, I'm likely only to double up - and then be facing another random hand from the SB.

As it was - I got called by both - turned over QT.

Hit a straight and tripled up.

Now I have over 3xBB left - and for my BB the SB actually has to think about how to play this - it's not an auto push for him.

As it was - I had Qx - he limped to me, flopped 2nd pair, I flopped top pair, doubled up and went on to win.

I know it's a risky move, but I felt I needed the triple up, and I don't think my looking at my cards is going to let them think I have a top notch hand at all - they know I'm desperate.

[valenzuela]

Yesterday on a home game the followinng happened, heads up for the thing.
I raise to 2,5x blind, my oponent re-reaises to 5x the blind, i look at my cards and I have JJ...I took down the pot right there anyway.

[curtains]

This way of thinking is severely wrong. Just because you feel some "need" to triple up, doesn't mean that you have to try to do it with terrible hands. You'd actually much rather the SB fold to your allin here as opposed to call.

[KenProspero]

Personally, at my level of play, I equate the 'all-in blind' play with 'showing your cards' everyone folds to you.

I see the pro's do it occasionally, and I don't say I won't show 4 of a kind or a straight flush. But except in VERY rare occasions, it just doesn't seem like a good idea.

[pooh74]

i agree with curtains here, your only chance here is heads up, not to try and triple up...this is a bad example bc u have no fold equity, but with a little more chips the idea is to see if u can isolate a player.

[skipperbob]

The only time I'de move blind is when I'm dating some pig from the eastern Bloc /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[SuitedSixes]

So you've seen Yugo's sister.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
So you've seen Yugo's sister.

[/ QUOTE ]

My sister is in Nepal and unreachable for comment at the moment.

Otherwise she'd pwn you like a cheapt suit on prom night.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Yugoslav

[yeau2]

I agree with Curtains here...just because you need to triple up doesnt mean you can or try to force yourself to. If they're maniacs just like the 5/10 and 10/20 players at the Cleveland VFWs, your getting called the coming 15000 hands anyway until your back even with them.

Sorry, lost track...but yea, look. your not getting an edge by going blind...if you had 900 or so *maybe* but otherwise not at all...just look quick. if its top 75% of hands or so go, if not wait till coming hand. If you double up you'll be playing the same situation again in the coming hand, but at least you've now kept yourself around for 3 more hands hypothetically, and gives you that much mroe of a chance to find a good hand hand (top 25% at this point for you).

Edit: That sounds like I'm telling you I think you should play suvival...I'm not, I realize you can't I'm just saying that your odds are bleak anyway, I just personally feel your giving yourself more of a chance by folding the bottom 20% when you look down.