Improving my discipline

[UATrewqaz]

I originally posted this in the Hold em forum but someone pointed out this is the more suitable forum for my particular question...

Ok, I'm a pretty intelligent guy and have studied all the books, memorized all the odd %'s for common situations, can calculate pot/implied odds on the fly, have been using Poker Tracker for awhile now, etc. etc.

When I am "on" I win consistently, I guess due to the fact I play against mostly idiots (I play low limit and some small buy in SNG's). The problem is I don't STAY on. Example, I'll call when I KNOW KNOW KNOW KNOW I should fold... (flop comes Q/J/x, I've got AJ and someone raises behind me). I'll fold this situation 98 times out of 100 but the two times I don't are a serious leak. I replay these hands in Poker Tracker later and am like "WTF is wrong with me?"

These lapses in discipline really cut into my winnings. I'm up over $1100 the past 2 months (which is a good bit considering my limits) but it could be so much more. I've thrown away at least $400 playing hands I had NO business playing (middle pairs, overcards all the way to showdown, chasing non-nut draws).

Are there any tips or techniques anyone uses here to stop this nonsense? This has to be a common problem among new poker players right?

[TripleH68]

Story...

There was a guy named Bill who smoked all the time. Two packs a day for years and years. His friends encouraged him to quit, but Bill just kept smoking. Then one night the whole group gets together for dinner...and no smokes for Bill. I mean this is a guy who would need to excuse himself from the table at least a half dozen times to grab a smoke. Finally someone gets up the courage to ask what method finally worked and Bill replies: "The other day I was standing on the corner having a cigarette and I thought to myself 'What the hell are you doing smoking?' So I tossed the cigarette on the ground and stomped it out."

[mosquito]

People pretty much do what they want to do, in the
end. If you decide you want to be more disciplined,
you will be.

As to finding the trigger that will work for you,
good luck. Cold hard logic does not seem to help,
at least in your case.
Find something that will give you no alternative
to disciplined play.

[SlowStroke]

This is an interesting problem that I am working on also.

Learning more about poker theory or what to do in various situations won't help here. I think what is needed is to learn more about ourselves.

What helps me, is to focus more on self awareness and less on the actual game.

I find that when I am tired, aggravated, annoyed, bored, or feel negatively about the other players - these kinds of lapses in discipline are more apt to occur.

I find that when I am alert, cheerful, interested in the game, and respect my opponents - these lapses rarely occur.

So, what I work on now is to constantly monitor my own state of mind. I find that for me, when my state of mind is right - good decisions come naturally and effortlessly.

When I notice that my state of mind is off, I get up until I get it straightened out. It requires constant vigilance, because judging your own state of mind is difficult. Often I don't notice that my attitude has soured until I play a hand badly, and then it is too late.

I'm not there yet, but I'm aware of the problem and I'm working on it.

[cyorg]

"I KNOW KNOW KNOW KNOW I should fold..."
everytime you do this count how much money you lost. by the end of the day add up all the lost money and remind yourself that it would all be in your account if you had just folded.

[Mayhap]

That was a sage and articulate reponse.

/M /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[KidPokerX]

but what about those time that his call led to opponents betting more frequently later on? In that case it cannot be added to the list.

[Stuey]

I know what I am doing is detrimental but I still do it.

Most people you tell this to will look at you like your crazy. Even though they unknowingly have the same flaw. It is denial and this article Denial: Part I by Alan N. Schoonmaker, Ph.D. (http://www.twoplustwo.com/magazine/current/schoonmaker0305.html) begins to look into it.

Some people never realize which behaviors are detrimental. Many go through life without suffering the consequences. Most pay dearly and express regret when the result is irreversible.

How do those who succeed in changing their behavior do so? Many different ways.

1. If the behavior causes very uncomfortable and no longer ignorable problems change might occur. (You loose all your money)

2. If the offender witnesses the consequences caused by the behavior change might occur. (You see someone loose all their money doing something you know you do)

3. If the behavior stops producing the perceived positive results or the person gets bored of the behavior change might occur. (You chase trips to the river X amount of times, each person has a different threshold, and the thrill wears off.)

There are more I just don’t know them yet.

The worst part is you never truly win. If you change a behavior there is no guarantee it will be permanent. I know a person that quit smoking for 17 years. But has now been smoking for the past 12 years.

Why are we surprised this is not easy? I have not seen anyone who has mastered this. Who can say they are not doing something in their everyday life and/or at the poker table that is clearly –EV?

So what do we do? Give up? Maybe it is simple. Never give up try and fail, try and succeed, try crazy stuff, but try, try, try. I’m going this route. And this from a guy who runs 30km a week and eats McDonalds for lunch. Real smart hey.

PS I got some great responses in a similar post you might find it useful I did. Knowing vs doing (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1731502&page=1&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1)