When Is The Right Time To Quit A Session? (Long)

I posted this query earlier in the General Forum but did not get satisfactory opinions so I'm trying it again. First, a little background:

I have been playing HE for 2 years now and have stepped up from 2-4 to 5-10 and 7.50-15 after gaining some basic knowledge and confidence about the game and beating the lower limit games during my first year. (I keep a record of my sessions as recommended by the experts and pros). I consider myself a recreational player but, what good is poker as a recreation if I cannot be a consistent winner?

For the past year, I used to be taking a 2-hr bus trek to AC 3-4 times a week and playing approx 6-14 hours - to my usual departure time of 2:30 or 3:30AM depending on my mental and physical state and rarely, if ever played an all night stand. This routine may sound to be too much for a rec player but I was among the unemployed then and my winnings helped in meeting my financial obligations. So, if there is such a player as a working rec player, then I was one of them - until I went back to the work force two weeks ago. I have cut down my playing time to once or twice a week with shorter sessions - max of 8 hours. But I still have the predicament of not knowing the right time to quit a session - EXCEPT when I KNOW that I am tired and my mental prowess is becoming blurry - a basic tenet of poker that I adhere to.

However, when I am in a game I would play my usual hours, win or lose but with breaks in between - including for meals or if have a continuous run of unplayable cards for say, 1.5 to 2 hours. Then I would my break for an orbit or two, walk around the casino and review my past plays. I try not to go on tilt especially after a bad beat by standing around, taking a deep breath, stretching, etc. and all those little mental exercises that writers, theorists and players have expounded repeatedly.

When I am stuck, I continue to play CONFIDENT that I will eventually get even and come out disappointed at the end of the session. Conversely, when I am ahead whether by a few chips or a rack early in the session I continue to play CONFIDENT that I can continue my winning ways. Again, I come out regretting the decision winding up with less than 1BB per hour at the end of the session instead of the 20-30 BB earlier. I am very conscious of game texture and would request table change if the situation merits - such as too many good players or game is too tough for my skill level. The only common denominator I can see is that I play until my accustomed departure at 2:30 or 3:30AM unless I know that I'm physically and mentally incapable to play a good game.

Any insightful response or opinions will sincerely be appreciated. Jedi Knight, any input? /forums/images/icons/confused.gif

[Jedi Poker]

"But I still have the predicament of not knowing the right time to quit a session - EXCEPT when I KNOW that I am tired and my mental prowess is becoming blurry - a basic tenet of poker that I adhere to." "The only common denominator I can see is that I play until my accustomed departure at 2:30 or 3:30 A.M. unless I know that I'm physically and mentally incapable to play a good game."

It looks to me like you already have a crystal clear method for showing yourself when to quit a session. What I believe you need is a new way of viewing the feelings of dissapointment (which you have felt once you had found yourself stuck, remained confident, yet somehow fell short) and regret (which you have felt once you had found yourself blowing back some of your earlier winnings which you thought you could have locked up and pocketed had you decided to quit earlier).
Regret and disappointment are our nervous system's response to loss. It is only human and normal for us to feel these emotions once we have tried to gain something and missed or once we already had something in our hands yet it slipped away. There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeling these two emotions occasionally. If you consider yourself to be a human being (instead of a piece of furniture), learn to welcome these two emotions into your life. Hmmm, I wonder which positive intention that these two emotions have for you you'll discover for yourself first, or second, or third.....
But where I think you've been being unfair to yourself is that you have been allowing yourself to feel these emotions too often - meaning, potentially almost every session!
My suggestion: Allow yourself to potentially feel regret and disappointment after every 30 sessions or so NOT potentially every session which was what you had been doing up until now. I mean, actually schedule it feeling regret and disappointment over your poker results. Ask yourself, How much more enjoyable and rewarding would my poker emotional life be once I will have managed to give myself permission to feel potentially disappointed about my poker results after the end of every 30 sessions instead of after every session?

[FishyWhale]

I always quit at the same time (11 p.m.) so once that time is reached, I stand up and go after playing the utg hand. Also I would never play more than 6 hours in one go.

[PokerBabe(aka)]

One of my pals who is a consistent winner and top 30-60 pro plays hours, not results, period. I am striving toward the same goal. By playing hours, you eliminate the noise of winning/losing and game composition. Of course, if you are getting crushed or are tired, bored, etc. you should leave. But... You already know that. I believe in setting a "give back" limit once ahead 20 big bets in a session (such as 1/3) and I also belive in setting a loss limit in a session (such as 20 big bets). These are numbers I feel "comfortable" with. Some will disagree and state simply that "if the game is good and you are a favorite", keep playing. I find giving back a win (or turning a win into a loss) very disturbing. That is why my primary goal is to quit while ahead. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif I am most vulnerable when I get stuck "quickly" in a game. My biggest losses have come when I started losing early in a session and failed to hit the bricks soon enough /forums/images/icons/crazy.gif . Thus, I try to stick to my "preset" loss limits. The right time to quit is when you reach your "goal", your "limit", your fatigue point, etc. These factors are different for all of us-- the key is to find what works for YOU and to stick to your plan.! LGPG, Babe

[roGER]

Not sure if this is appropriate for you (everyone is different, especially in this matter) but I've been treating the game as a part time job for several years now.

I decide beforehand what my session length is going to be, have a break after 4 hours (lunch or dinner or whatever) then do another 4 hours max. If I decide to play 6 hours, then I might split it it into 3 and then 3, or 4 and then 2.

I try very hard not to give a damn about winning or losing. My job is to play the hands I'm dealt as best I can. That's all I can do. When my shift is over its over.

The one exception to this would occur if I think I'm the worst player in a particular game. This hasn't happened so far, probably because I stick to low limits, but it may well occur at some point in the future. If I did think I was the worst player at the table in a particular game, I would leave that game on the very next hand.

The above method sounds very easy, but its hard to do, and may well depend on personality as well as things like attitude and experience. It may help to imagine you are a machine while you play, albeit a super sensitive machine attuned to humans. It also helps once you have several hundred sessions under your belt to plot these sessions in a graph. If you're a winning player, you'll see a very bumpy ride indeed but the overal trend is steadily upwards. Once you can see it, and then visualise it afterwards, then you realise that an individual session, or group of sessions isn't very important.

Hope the above helps,

- roGER

PS: Another bonus, you stop being bothered by bad-beats, in fact they are very good sign that you are playing well and your opponents are playing badly. You welcome the bad beats as proof you, the robot, are playing optimally.

U are losing and U are starting to hurt emotionally,QUIT.
Your game will probably start to deteriorate.
I quit after losing 30BB's. However,if I'm winning,I have no stop-win limit and do not set aside anything to guarantee
a take-home win. I view pokering NOT as ONE session,but as a series of many sessions over my poker career.
For me,winning or losing a session is NOT important.
If I'm up 20BB's and then go home losing 10BB's,I WILL be disappointed,but NOT aggravated or bothered.
I just cry that night and feel better the next day(LOL)!
I try to put in a 4-day week,8-10 hour session
NO,I can't play an "A" game for 8 hours,but if my opponents are playing a "D" game ,I will still be a favorite.
And the only reason that I quit after losing about 30BB's is that the players take more "shots" at me and I start to play hands that I should NOT have been playing.
Hence, I donate an "X" amount of BB's instead of having a "normal" loss.
Happy Pokering,
Sitting Bull

I'd like to thank everyone for the insightful responses. I found all of them to be thought-provoking and can be very helpful to my game.

Coincidentally, I played what I think was one of my BETTER games last night -7.50/15 at Trop - with the WORST results. I NEVER WON A HAND and quit after 2.5 hours stuck about 30BBs! This is the first time such thing happened in my short poker career. What I found surprising is that, although I was disappointed, I was not angry or sad and did not have any regrets whatsoever. Probably, it was because during my 2-hr bus trek, I had all the time to think about my game plan and was also wondering what responses I will get with my post. During the entire session, I tried very hard to maintain a constant focus and I consciously KNEW that I played my hands very well and accepted the fact that the results must have been one those statistical aberrations (bad beats included) that we all experience.

Examples of hands I lost:

Got AA UTG, raised, got re-raised, 1 caller, I capped. Three handed. Flopped J high with no flush or straight draw. I bet, both called. Turn - blank, I bet, both called. River - another blank, I bet, I caller. Showed my rockets, caller turned up pocket Jacks and said she did not raise me because I was a nice guy. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

My last hand - AQo in CO and limped after 4 callers. Button and both blinds folded. Flop A Q X no flush. UTG2 bets, folded to me, I raised. Only UTG called. Turn K, UTG2 checked and called my bet. River 9, UTG2 bets out. Had to call. He caught his two-outer on the river - 9s. I picked up my remaining chips and bid adieu to everyone. And I went home 2 hours ahead of my appointed departure time. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

Hi Babe!

I think your idea (and Sitting Bull too) of some sort of loss limit is something to think about and if I can incorporate it with a fixed session length as your pal does and suggested by others - the FishyWhale, and roGER, whichever comes first maybe something I would experiment with. A fixed session is quite hard to do though because when I said a leave at a "pre-determined time of 2:30 or 3:30AM" I sometimes stretch it HOPING that the extra 4 orbits may make a difference in my results. I do not agree with the players who subscribe to the belief of "playing as long as the game is good and you are a favorite". Because, how can the game be good if your opponents especially the fishes are raking in mountains of chips and you are winning with anthills? How can you remain a favorite with your B+ game when your top pairs are being outdrawn by 2-outers on the river /forums/images/icons/confused.gif