Multiway ITM decision - ICM might help

[TheAmp]

First call is easy. what about the second one, assuming big stack has 99-AA or AK?

How would you analyze this position?
Can ICM help here?

(big stack had JJ , other guy had KTo - I won the pot and tourney)

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t600 (3 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t4480)
Button (t1420)
Hero (t4100)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t1420 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls t1120, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t4480 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls t2680 (All-In).

Flop: (t10000) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 3 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t10000) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 3 all-in)</font>

River: (t10000) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 3 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t10000

[sofere]

The inital call was a pretty big mistake IMHO. You have a good hand, but a very vulnerable one. If you were planning on calling an overpush from the big stack, you should have been the one to initially push and try and drive big stack out.

[TheAmp]

[ QUOTE ]
The inital call was a pretty big mistake IMHO. You have a good hand, but a very vulnerable one. If you were planning on calling an overpush from the big stack, you should have been the one to initially push and try and drive big stack out.

[/ QUOTE ]

1) ATs is a big hand with only 3 players. Most people push with any Ace, King or PP. Now why should I push? If he has a big hand he is not backing off. he WILL call. The fact I am going to call his all-in doesnt justify pushing myself. I do not gain folding equity, at least not the hands I WANT him to fold. The only difference is if he has a mediocre hand, such as a small Ace. I want him to call in this case.

2) The intersting decision IMO is the second call. How would you analyze it?

[bigredlemon]

It's hard to say which call is worst, the first or the second.

If you push, big stack can only call with QQ-AA and AK. Maybe JJ and AQ if he's frisky. If you flat call you are letting either a cheap flop with middle pairs and two high broadways, or are getting yourself in a sticky situation when you get raised.

The second call is just awful. You are bheind every hand he could be raising with, and are only stuck because you think you are pot comitted. (You are not.) I'd be inclined to fold here since you can easily be drawing slim to a T or a double paired board. Looks like you got very lucky here.


The fact that you insist that you made the right choice makes me think you should be playing less poker and doing more reading, or alternatively, tell you what your SN is so I can follow you around /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[TheAmp]

[ QUOTE ]
The fact that you insist that you made the right choice makes me think you should be playing less poker and doing more reading, or alternatively, tell you what your SN is so I can follow you around /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

1) Thanks for your reply. You convinced me I misplayed the hand.

2) I had my doubts, that's why I posted. I wanted to figure out how to analyze these positions. I already knew I got lucky.

3) I have been playing poker for less than three months, and I am doing fine. I don't think you need my action. Your offensive remarks are not called for. I am here to learn, not to fight.

4) I wish you the best...really.

S.J.

[curtains]

btw I think that you are absolutely correct to play the first hand, it's just a question of whether to raise or flat call.

Once you call and the BB moves allin I would fold.

Anyone who says you should fold ATo originally is wrong.

[Zelcious]

If you put button on KTo which he had then...

EV Fold 0.317 EV Push 0.343 No Call 0.000% Diff. 2.6%

if you however put him on say 22+ A2+ KT+ K7s+ QJs QTs

EV Fold 0.317 EV Push 0.334 No Call 0.000% Diff. 1.7%

[callmedonnie]

Agree with Curtain here. Whether to push or call is tricky, especially in with the knowledge of what you were up against. But I would definitely fold the reraise. The only hands he could possibly reraise you with you are behind on. You stand to come to fall into second place if the big stack is as strong as he is showing. As he knows he will have to showdown, why wouldn't he be that strong?

A10 three handed is annoying as it beats most hands but may get you into trouble on occasion. Folding them is out of the question though, in my opinion.

[curtains]

I might have been wrong earlier and you may have to call the reraise. Theres 6900 in the pot and it costs 2700 to call. If this is the case I'd rather raise myself and hope to eliminate hands like AJ, 77 etc.

[TheAmp]

Thank you.

[TheAmp]

Thanks guys for taking the time, and helping me out.