still working on open raises

[_bustedflush_]

The good news is that the table wasn't this tight all night. Typically A8o is auto-fold for me. Should it be here too? With three guys to act, I'm pretty sure at least one will call just on principle.

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">hero raises</font>...

[jaxUp]

this would be the spot for 'em.

Some may advocate a fold, but I like it if you are at all confident with your postflop play.

[parappa]

Maybe a bit marginal, but either from the button or with A9 it seems pretty easy, so okay. If you didn't steal, let's see the flop and see what happens. Imo how you play this postflop probably says a lot about whether you should raise with it preflop.

[Thigh]

Apparently, I'm not too confident with my post-flop play, because I would have folded that hand. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]
Apparently, I'm not too confident with my post-flop play, because I would have folded that hand. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Not a big mistake, if you can even call it one. A8o is really the cutoff here IMO.

[Thigh]

Thanks. Had me worried for a second. Thought I needed to adjust my starting hands.

[Gambler]

I would raise this against fish or tight blinds....Post flop play will be tricky if you miss.

[Gambler]

Sorry I misread this, I thought you had button. I would fold this every time.

[waynethetrain]

I think this is certainly a profitable raise against players that might not be sharp enough to realize you might be stealing and not have that much. Against everyone else, it depends on how you play post flop if you miss.

[KingOtter]

[ QUOTE ]
The good news is that the table wasn't this tight all night. Typically A8o is auto-fold for me. Should it be here too? With three guys to act, I'm pretty sure at least one will call just on principle.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason this is ok is because you're only really worried about button. A lot of this is read dependent of course. If Button, SB or BB are 95% VP$IP, they'll be in.... but if they've been folding a good portion of their hands this blind-steal works pretty well.

Even if there is one caller, you're pretty good with A8o. Pokerstove shows about a 59% equity vs. a random hand. Vs. 2 random hands it goes down to about 42%, but still better than the 33% of the money you're putting in.

KO

[itsmesteve]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure at least one will call just on principle.

[/ QUOTE ] maybe i'm missing something, but i want them all to fold here. i'll happily pick up the blinds. if just the bb sticks around i'm not to worried. but a cc from the button is terrible, and the sb calling, depending on reads, wouldn't be much in the way of good news either. all that said, i think its a good raise, but not to get callers, to steal the blinds.

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is certainly a profitable raise against players that might not be sharp enough to realize you might be stealing and not have that much. Against everyone else, it depends on how you play post flop if you miss.

[/ QUOTE ]

can you really steal with a single bet being CO at .25/.5? i don't see this hand being profitable at all- marginal at best. you get called and miss, or reraised PRF, you're already paying too much i think.

my opinion: fold.

[_bustedflush_]

Thanks for the input. Here's how it went down in the end. Seemed obvious that BB got a piece of the flop and he wasn't going anywhere. My basic plan was to fold to any bet from there unless I saw an ace- -not totally sure what I would have done with an 8.

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (4.20 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.20 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 4.20 BB

[MrWookie47]

Against the average LP-P player at the level, sure, it's not entirely likely that you'll just steal the blinds. That's not to say that there aren't rocks lying around, though. If you've happen to found some, going for a steal with an albeit marginal hand isn't such a bad idea. Gotta look at reads.

[Nick Royale]

Fold flop without a read.

[MrWookie47]

Unless your read of BB says that you might be able to push him off of a hand with aggressive play, I don't think that raise is a good idea. If pushing him off a hand was your plan, and he called your raise, you'd want to fire again on the turn. You'd have to have a pretty good read, however, since many more players will just call down aggression with a deuce here.

Is BB thinking enough to fire back at a possible blind stealer with any, or no, piece of the flop, or is he passive enough to only bet into with a king? Against the average .25/.50 player, you're probably drawing to 1.5 outs, 3 at best, and you should have just folded the flop.

[jaxUp]

Good check-through on the river. If you bet it I bitch-slap you.

[parappa]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold flop without a read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nick, do you fold flop anytime (at LL) that you steal with rubbish (like A8o rubbish, I realize that Q2s rubbish is an obvious fold), don't make a pair, and get bet into on the flop? I tend to and I'm wondering if it's weak. If it happens a 2d time from that player I tend to play back on the flop (though hopefully I got something that time).

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold flop without a read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nick, do you fold flop anytime (at LL) that you steal with rubbish (like A8o rubbish, I realize that Q2s rubbish is an obvious fold), don't make a pair, and get bet into on the flop? I tend to and I'm wondering if it's weak. If it happens a 2d time from that player I tend to play back on the flop (though hopefully I got something that time).

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that by the 2nd time you should have more of a read, making your options a bit more open.

[davelin]

Auto raise in this situation

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
Nick, do you fold flop anytime (at LL) that you steal with rubbish (like A8o rubbish, I realize that Q2s rubbish is an obvious fold), don't make a pair, and get bet into on the flop? I tend to and I'm wondering if it's weak. If it happens a 2d time from that player I tend to play back on the flop (though hopefully I got something that time).

[/ QUOTE ]
I most often fold. In this case I only have one overcard to the flop and it's quite likely he has a K and the pot is small. But just as you say, some players tend to take shots against you when they've realized it might work. It's important to spot these players and play back at them at times. Not all player will realize this at micros so that's a reason why reads matters a lot.

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]


Nick, do you fold flop anytime (at LL) that you steal with rubbish (like A8o rubbish, I realize that Q2s rubbish is an obvious fold

[/ QUOTE ]

A8o is not a rubbish blind-stealing hand...far from it.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
Unless your read of BB says that you might be able to push him off of a hand with aggressive play, I don't think that raise is a good idea. If pushing him off a hand was your plan, and he called your raise, you'd want to fire again on the turn. You'd have to have a pretty good read, however, since many more players will just call down aggression with a deuce here.

Is BB thinking enough to fire back at a possible blind stealer with any, or no, piece of the flop, or is he passive enough to only bet into with a king? Against the average .25/.50 player, you're probably drawing to 1.5 outs, 3 at best, and you should have just folded the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
Good post. Betting this turn is mandatory after the flop raise. (the discounted out are way to pesimistic though)

[topspin]

[ QUOTE ]
A8o is not a rubbish blind-stealing hand...far from it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seconded. I think y'all are missing that raising A8o folded to you in the cutoff has as much a value component as a blind stealing one. You're likely to be ahead against random hands.

If it gets 3-bet back at you, you'll need to be careful postflop. If a loose player just calls, there's no reason not to think you're ahead.

[GrunchCan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A8o is not a rubbish blind-stealing hand...far from it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seconded. I think y'all are missing that raising A8o folded to you in the cutoff has as much a value component as a blind stealing one. You're likely to be ahead against random hands.

If it gets 3-bet back at you, you'll need to be careful postflop. If a loose player just calls, there's no reason not to think you're ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

3rded. I'll try to steal the blinds with just about any ace in this spot.

[Emmitt2222]

Good raise pf. Although .25/.5 is a tough place to take blinds A8 is a good hand here to try and steal with. A lot of the postflop play comes from reads which is very important here. If the caller is very agressive and may take shots at you with anything then you just want to call down almost no matter what unless the board gets super ugly. If you feel he will bet with any peace of the board but you could move him off bottom pair you would want to raise here and then fire again on the turn to get him to fold. If you don't think he would fold but would bet with bottom pair then your move for the raise on the flop for the free card is a good play. If you feel his is passive and will only bet with a good hand here such as a K then I would fold. So the answer to your postflop play is it depends, alot. This is a good time to get into blind stealing however because as you move up limits it becomes much more important. This play shows that you are starting to think about adapting more and thats a good sign so I would say keep at it and don't fold in this situation.