dropped another 80 BBon .25/.50 .. why cant i win? [Archive]

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RockPile

03-04-2005, 02:15 AM

anyone have any general advice guidelines for this limit at pokerstars? i dont know what is wrong..

my .05/.10 was 6bb over 12k hands
my .25/.50 is is -4.2bb over 4200 hands.

thats almost -200 bb

wtf.

cmwck

03-04-2005, 02:25 AM

eh... i think we really need some more information here. I don't understand the BB figures you posted or how you arrived at -200BB. Give more background information.

Niediam

03-04-2005, 02:32 AM

Your sample size is small so it may still just be in the realm of varience... but it's hard to tell you what's going wrong without seeing what you are doing. Post some hands!

fire_fly

03-04-2005, 02:33 AM

Ok man, you provided no specifics, so let's start with the basics.
You know what you are doing or you just going by feeling? You read any books, done any research on odds, etc? If not, start there.
If you haven't read any books. Small Stakes Hold'em. Best 30 bucks you'll ever spend. Read the cover off of it. You WILL win. I'm up 1,100 in the last 2 months playing .25/.50 after reading this book.
If you have done some research and stuff.... post some hands, maybe try pokertracker and see what hands you are losing most money with. Also, 4k hands is VERY small sample size so you could just be having bad luck. But I have a feeling that's not it. If you are losing that much playing .25/.50, you're game is probably weak. Sorry to be blunt, but honesty is the best way to go right now. Read up, bring your A game, crush these weak games. Oh, and Pokerroom.com seems to have some very weak ppl on average right now, so mabye give that a try? But you still won't make the maximum without doing some homework first.
So yeah, if you care, read, if you just wanna have fun, have fun.

RockPile

03-04-2005, 03:18 AM

okay then.. please critique..

hand 1
PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (7.20 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, Hero calls.

River: (15.20 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 23.20 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG has 8h 8s (three of a kind, eights).
Hero has Ks Ad (two pair, aces and kings).
Outcome: UTG wins 23.20 BB. 

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 bets, Button calls, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP3 calls, Button folds.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

River: (12.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG+1 has Js Ks (two pair, kings and sevens).
MP3 has 7d 8d (three of a kind, sevens).
Hero has Qs Kd (two pair, kings and sevens).
Outcome: MP3 wins 15.50 BB. 

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (7.20 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, Hero calls.

River: (15.20 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 23.20 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG has 8h 8s (three of a kind, eights).
Hero has Ks Ad (two pair, aces and kings).
Outcome: UTG wins 23.20 BB. 
i keep loosing with this crap...

Niediam

03-04-2005, 03:28 AM

Hand 1:

Raise preflop. The rest seems ok but villian is telling you that you are beat by giving you so much action so I think you should slow down at some point as there are quite a few hands which beat you.

Hand 2:

Fold preflop. But since you called... the rest of the hand seems good. No reason not to bet the turn and river.

Based upon these two hands only it seems like one major leak you have is your preflop play.

fire_fly

03-04-2005, 03:46 AM

Looks like you posted these hands just to say "see? I lose when I should have won! "

Poker is like that. Get used to it. You will lose TONS of hands you should have won. But longterm, those ppl calling you down with small # of outs will be giving you their money. Sometimes they will get lucky and take your money. This is a good thing, as it encourages them to keep playing poor odds, which again, makes the good player money longterm, regardless of single session results. Plug your leaks. You will win at micro limits.

Again, sorry if these answers sound harsh, but it's what you need to hear to start winning.

fire_fly

03-04-2005, 03:51 AM

oh, and btw, AK, even offsuite, is a great hand. 3 bet definately at this low of a level. and fold KQo to a raise.

AlmightyJay

03-04-2005, 03:52 AM

Hand 1: 3-bet preflop. I call the turn, raise the river and call a 3-bet. All that action certainly screams either set or 9T.

Hand 2: Fold preflop. Otherwise it looks good.

kirkt

03-04-2005, 04:36 AM

Call me contrary, but KQo is a marginal call to an early raiser. It's not like it's KJo! I appear to be in the minority here.

Anyway, I'd just like a little logic/evidence for the fold.

sin808

03-04-2005, 04:52 AM

If the player is reasonable a UTG raise is going to consist of a range of hands that are either better than your KQo or dominate it. If there's a bunch of cold callers calling isn't so bad, but otherwise it's an easy fold.
Gap concept- you need a better hand to call a raise with than to raise yourself.

scotty34

03-04-2005, 05:12 AM

What could and early raiser have, considering he is a typical player, and how many of these hands are you beating?

Crushed by: AA, KK, QQ, AK, AQ

Slightly losing to: JJ TT

Beating (but a doubtful raise from EP): KJ QJs

I may have missed one or two, but you should get the idea here. If the raiser is a maniac, and you have noticed he has very loose raising standards, then maybe 3-bet it.

Hagrid

03-04-2005, 06:57 AM

Hand 1, reraise pf, when you get capped on turn (unless you have a specific read on player) think you have to calm down on river and just check call.

Hand 2, fold preflop, scince you called think you played it fine after that.

Hand 3, I would still reraise pre-flop here purely to try and get it heads up. When the UTG player check raises the turn i think you can fold.

parappa

03-04-2005, 07:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
hand 1
PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (7.20 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, Hero calls.

River: (15.20 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 23.20 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I probably just call down from the turn, and I don't raise the river. While the 2-pair improved us, villain's claiming to have something like a straight. Someone else can probably find a raise on the turn, but I just call turn call river.

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 bets, Button calls, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP3 calls, Button folds.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

River: (12.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Edit: Missed the preflop raise. Fold there, but otherwise looks fine.

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (7.20 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, Hero calls.

River: (15.20 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 23.20 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like the same hand as #1.

Gambler

03-04-2005, 09:42 AM

Welcome bad beats, they are your friend. Hand 1 wasn't even a bad beat. When your top pair runs into a set you're going to lose some chips.

Thigh

03-04-2005, 09:47 AM

Based on what I can see, you need work on your PF play. BTW, your third hand looks a lot like your first hand. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Part of the reason to raise PF is to get rid of some of the players who want to see the flop cheaply just in case they get lucky. So don't let them, make them pay.

davelin

03-04-2005, 11:40 AM

Hand 1 - 3-bet pre-flop. Not sure I like the turn play. Definitely slowdown on the river.

Hand 2 - Fold pre-flop. MP3 is an idiot.

Hand 3 - Hmmm...looks familiar.

droolie

03-04-2005, 11:45 AM

Pokerstars can be a tough game but it's an excellent learning ground at a low limit. Try not to be results oriented. Your learning and that's the price youpay for an education. Hang in there you'll easily win it back if you improve your game.

My guess is that you have lots to learn. Read the sticky FAQ at the top of this forum. Don't just post hands, post comments in every thread that confuses you. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Read and reread SSH. Repeat.

Hand 1
Raise pf. When UTG caps the turn you have to think monster. This is the time to slow down. I don't mind the river raise considering you hit your two pair but capping is a bit nuts.

Hand 2: I fold this pf. The rest looks good.

Hand 3: Is the same as hand 1....

topspin

03-04-2005, 12:45 PM

Others have mentioned your preflop play, so I'll just emphasize this one point from hand 1:

[ QUOTE ]
When UTG caps the turn you have to think monster.

[/ QUOTE ]

It shouldn't take a turn cap; I'd call down after it gets raised. When a preflop raiser fails to follow up with a flop bet on a favorable looking board, and then follows it up by check-raising the turn, big alarm bells should be sounding in your head. I'd figure him for KK/JJ here, although it turned out he has a wider range of hands for an UTG raise than normal.

(You're not afraid of a straight, since it's a very unlikely preflop hand to raise.)