party1k: i hate jacks

[mikech]

below are a few JJ hands i've played the last couple days on the new 1k tables; i never seem to know what to do with them, help me out.



hand 1: i have jacks in the sb, utg minraises to 20, mp reraises to 75. folded to me and i almost want to fold right there. instead i coldcall, playing strictly for a set, but utg pops it again to 300. mp folds, now it's 225 more to me with 460 in the pot, and utg has ~1500 more in his stack (i have him covered). it's either AA/KK at this point, do i have odds to still try to spike a set on him? i folded, anybody fold the first time around?


hand 2: i have jacks utg with ~1700 (not only do i hate jacks, i hate them even more oop) and limp. aggressive player on my immediate left (has me covered) raises to 45, one lp caller and i call. flop is rags, i lead for 125, utg+1 makes it 350, lp folds and i fold. ok to fold here? he's pretty aggro, he could have AK or even 10-10, not giving me credit for a hand since i didn't raise pf. maybe i should've, i just don't usually do so with JJ utg. given that i didn't, instead of leading out, check-call or maybe even check-raise the flop?


hand 3: couple limpers to me and i make it 65 in the co with jacks (at least this time i have position) and ~1k. shortstacked bb with ~300 calls, and one limper with ~900 calls. flop comes unpaired low cards with two of a suit. checked to me, bb has ~240 left so that's what i bet. bb calls, limper moves all-in for ~600 more. i fold. again.



in general, i find myself folding jacks a lot whenever pressured. do i need to take a stand with them sometimes, play them more aggressively myself and be the one applying the pressure? it's probably the hardest hand to play, for me at least.

[doggin]

What to do with JJ UTG is a problem for lots of players,
a tight table will fold to your all-in or 4 X BB raise
and all you get is the blinds, while a loose table has
every AK, AQ, AJ, calling you down and then you're about
50/50.

Sorry, I don't know. Just ranting.

[zepmetal]

I think the first hand is alright.. You could have folded when it first came to you, but its likely MP was just feeling out UTGs mini-raise. You're not getting odds to call and spike a set.

Hand 2: I think if UTG is aggro you can check/raise the flop. If UTG+1 bets and LP raises, you probably need to fold, but you have more info to make it correct. By leading out into a very aggro UTG+1 on a truly ragged flop (no real draws) gives him an opportunity to push you off a relatvely weak hand with a not-too-huge-raise. You check raise, and hes gotta put in his stack to push you off when you could easily have a set. That said, after having led the flop, folding is likely correct.

Hand 3: The last one is tough. Limper could be making a good play with a set since hes essentially trapping BB who will likely make a weak allin call (since hes short stacked and probably bad). But theres a good chance limper is on a draw. And even if he is on a draw, its likely you're still not way ahead since he could have 1 or 2 overcards. At the lower stakes tables I have seen this move with top pair or a weak overpair. Its a tough decision though.

[Ulysses]

Hand 1: Assuming mp calls, that's 225:(460+225, call it 900). Let's assume you bust UTG when you hit. That's 225:(900+1500), about 10:1. Toss in the fact that you will sometimes not bust him, you'll sometimes hit and lose, and you'll sometimes face reraise from MP pre-flop and it's time to fold. With these stacks, I call the first time, fold the second time.


hand 2: Fold is OK. I like check-calling and seeing what happens on the turn better.

hand 3: About 1500:600. Because of the short-stack allin, I think the limper will have you beat enough of the time to fold.

[ QUOTE ]
in general, i find myself folding jacks a lot whenever pressured.

[/ QUOTE ]

As a general rule, that sounds just about right.

[ QUOTE ]
be the one applying the pressure?

[/ QUOTE ]

As a general rule, it's more fun to be the one applying the pressure.

[mikech]

glad to see you think these folds were all ok, diablo. in hand 2, i considered check-calling, but if a ten or lower comes on the turn, do you call another pot-sized bet, which would be ~$450? or check-fold a seemingly innocuous turn if he continues to represent strength? what do you think of zepmetal's idea of check-raising the flop for more info?

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
in hand 2, i considered check-calling, but if a ten or lower comes on the turn, do you call

[/ QUOTE ]

I check-call in that hand against an opponent whose turn action will tell me a lot about his hand. Against some opponents, I'll check call and lead. This is a tricky spot OOP and you don't want to spend a ton of chips to find out you're behind. Many different ways to go. Yours was fine.

[ QUOTE ]
what do you think of zepmetal's idea of check-raising the flop for more info?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, it is sometimes OK, like against an opponent who will turn his cards face-up with his actions. But what if he calls w/ QQ here? Ugh. That can get costly and leave you with a sick decision later.