Women In Tour Events

[HDPM]

Short wire service blurb in the local fishwrap indicated that a woman won a PGA sectional event back east that carries an exemption to the Greater Hartford Open. This may answer some of the debate we've had on whether women can play the Tour. I think they can or at least that any rule preventing it won't be upheld. There may be more on this coming out given the whole Augusta thing. I hope she plays. I would be interested to see what a competent woman could do on a regular Tour course. She shot 5-under for 3 days on whatever course they used for the event. That's good, but the Tour is a whole different ball game. Might be interesting.

[andyfox]

She's going to have to play from the men's tees, which of course is a disadvantage for her.

Maybe she can get Hootie to caddy for her. . .

[andyfox]

. . .doesn't look like any one, other than you and me, was too interested in Walter Cronkite. I hate dating myself.

Regards,
Andy

[HDPM]

I read another article on this in the "What They're Writing" section of PGATOUR.com. Sorry, no link as I had problems with it. In the PGA Sectional she was allowed to play from tees 10% shorter than the regular. This makes a huge difference at that level. In the Hartford Open she will have to play where everyone else plays, which I think is obviously and absolutely required in open or top-level events. She has not decided whether to play. It must be a tough decision, because the embarrasment potential is there for a 35 year old woman playing a full length tour course against the long hitters. One of the 5 or 6 year old girls out there hitting balls now might step up and try mens events someday though. She will have to be an athletic strong woman who putts better than anybody on the LPGA Tour now I think. And no, it won't be Gabi Reece for those of you who read that article recently. I saw the pictures of her swing and there is no way she will ever compete on the women's tour, let alone the PGA Tour, even if she is a great athlete and strong.

[M2d]

I think Michelle Wie from Hawaii (and my high school, BTW, which automatically makes me a better golfer /forums/images/icons/cool.gif ) is the only girl (or woman) on the radar with the potential to play in the Men's events. She's 12 and 5'10 or so. the other girls coming up (Morgan Pressel, et al) have great games, but they're just too limited, physically, to handle the set ups out there. Wie is less polished than Pressel, but she's long and has a bright future in front of her if she doesn't burn out.

[andyfox]

I agree with you on the embarrassment potential. Although since she's not Sorenstam or Webb, maybe if she does poorly it will be a non-event, whereas if one of the top women played and did poorly, it would open up a can of worms.

I think it's roughly equivalent, although not exactly so, to a senior playing on the regular tour. For the most part, they just don't hit the ball as far or putt as well as regular tour players. It becomes news when a Kite or a Watson or an Irwin makes the cut in the U.S. Open or something like that. My guess is a good woman player, playing from the same tees as the men, would do about as well: make some cuts, sometimes finish high (Watson finished 9th or so, I think, in the Colonial last year), but basically not be able to compete.

[HDPM]

The competitive seniors are WAY ahead of the LPGA pros right now. Here's one example. The woman who qualified shot 5 under for 3 days on a 6200 yard course. The winning score for the seniors playing 54 holes from the back tees would be between 15 and 20 under I bet. From 6200 yards it would take better than 20 under unless the weather was horrid. That's 3 straight 65's which those old croaks can do.

[brad]

'putt as well as regular tour players.'

speaking of putting, i know they have like long drive competitions or whatever, which the women obviously have no chance at.

but what would be interesting would be a putting competition and see how the women do.

brad

[JTG51]

I really don't think that any LPGA players are in Tom Watson's or Hale Irwin's league. Not even close. They would just struggle too much with the 460 yard par 4's.

On a short course the top LPGA players might be able to have a respectable finish once in a while, but I don't think they wouldn't even sniff the top 10 on a US Open course.

[JTG51]

I love your posts Andy, but I'd hate to date you also. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[andyfox]

I note that the PGA now recognizes all British Open wins as official tour wins. A few years ago, they had adopted the ridiculous stance that only British Open wins after a certain year counted.

Two interesting things about the new statistic is that A) It gives Sam Snead 82 wins instead of 81, pushing him one more victory away from Tiger; and B) Tom Watson's 5 British Open wins give him 39, putting him in the top 10 (9th actually).

The only surprising name (to me) in the Top 10 winners list was Cary Middlecoff with 40 wins (same as Walter Hagen). I never realized Middlecoff was that good.

[JTG51]

This is great. If I had known there was so much golf talk going on over here, I would have made a point to discover this forum a long time ago.

[HDPM]

I think it would surprise most people because the male tour pros are light years ahead of the women around the greens. A bigger relative difference than overall ball striking (not pure length) in all likelihood.

[M2d]

partly a strength thing and partly a technique thing is the mens' abilities to make the ball dance. they can spin the ball on much shorter shots than the women can, and it gives them a much greater chance of sticking it close.
Most LPGA players don't have to practice things like a dead wedge, since their normal wedge shots don't have enough spin to do anything anyway. (from what I've seen on TV, at least)

[HDPM]

This is one reason why women may be better from intermediate yardages like 50-75 yards than men. They are not as good from either 100-125 or right up close. But I've seen some LPGA pros hit deadly shots from yardages that give the men fits. I am a bit out of touch with the modern players though. I saw PGA, Senior Tour and LPGA tour players up close in the early to mid eighties. I caddied in pro-ams at LPGA and Senior events (for the ams) and saw some PGA events and non-official events. So I have not seen Tiger or Annika in person, but did see Nicklaus and Carner. The only thing I really remember about the seniors was seeing that Sam Snead still had an unbelievable swing at around 70. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[M2d]

all yardages can give me fits. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
I think the gap is the widest at greenside. a lot of the touch that Lefty and Tiger have around the green comes, I think, from strength. It's definately a finesse game, but they have unreal strength, control and coordination that allows them to get their clubheads in just the right position to pull off some of the shots that they do. When I see a woman on tour hit one of Phil's backwards flop shots, I'll be convinced that she's ready to compete on the big tour.

[scalf]

/forums/images/icons/blush.gif it's academic...a top woman golfer can make a lot more money playing the squat to pee tour than the testosterone laden events...just the facts please...hey, ..i do not object to women who qualify playing historically male only events...i just say...get real...jmho..gl /forums/images/icons/smirk.gif

[HDPM]

That "STP" Tour is really politically correct there. You and Hootie pals? /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif

[JTG51]

I live in CT. One of the local sports guys was briefly talking about this today on the radio. I didn't hear the whole thing, but he mentioned something about her playing from the red tees for the qualifying event. I'm not sure if he was serious or making a joke.

Did she really play from the reds? If she did, that's hardly fair.

[HDPM]

Yeah, the article I read on the PGATOUR.com website said she played from tees 10% shorter - red tees designed for the sectional event in other words. It was an article from a Hartford paper I think. Check out "What They're Writing" on that website. I don't have the link because I had trouble with the site earlier. But if you like golf check it out, it's a website I check all the time. they provide links to golf articles from around the world. Some of the writing from England is great. The other day one of the English guys slammed Crenshaw's emotional captaincy at the last Ryder Cup by saying it "reduced him as a captain and a man." Or very similar language. Ouch. Some good stuff out there.

[scalf]

/forums/images/icons/blush.gif did you just roll out of the cabbage patch.....what the hell is fair when dealing with a woman....jmho...gl /forums/images/icons/confused.gif

[Tom D]

It seems clear that the PGA allows women to play the tour, and I like that, but assisting them (10% closer) is a bad thing. It discriminates against men.

Good follow-up, by the way.

Tom D