JJ early - 10+1

[dfscott]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t940)
BB (t815)
UTG (t690)
UTG+1 (t1810)
MP1 (t705)
Hero (t775)
MP3 (t800)
CO (t720)
Button (t745)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t15, MP1 calls t15, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t100</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls t85.

Flop: (t240) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets t75</font>, Hero folds.

I wasn't sure what to do with this. Am I better off limping here? In any case, after raising, I felt that getting bet into on the flop, however weakly, meant something and I should probably wait for a better spot. Would I be better off calling and seeing what the turn brings? Or should I re-raise and see how much he likes his hand?

Basically, I was very confused here -- anyone got a better line?

[Voltron87]

At the 11s I think playing JJ slow in a multiway pot is a lot better than playing it fast. Playing it fast in a multiway pot usually won't win you a big pot, and you usually get an overcard. If there are no callers I might raise it, but not too big. At this low a level I'm not too excited about playing a big pot with JJ here.

[Scuba Chuck]

I lump JJ in with my limping with small pocket pairs like 77+, with one exception. I don't need a lot of limpers before me to limp with this hand.

You got to draw the line somewhere.

Perhaps a smaller raise would have been less painful to fold.

[wuwei]

I think you played this one well. You have to fold that flop with an overcard and a bet into you. Especially since the board is essentially drawless.

I think playing JJ in the early levels of a SnG is another one of those areas where my play differs from a lot of the regular SnG players around here. Coming from a limit background, I value JJ a lot more. I will usually make a substantial raise, even with multiple limpers ahead of me. I like to narrow the field and often take the pot down with a flop bet. My sense is that being aggressive with JJ in early levels has been +EV for me, although I haven't looked at my results on this to be sure. Perhaps I'll take a look at PT tonight and see what is says. Of course, I have a small sample size issue, so I'm not sure how useful that will be...

[1C5]

I don't like to raise that much with JJ so early either. Either a small raise or even a limp if there are already a bunch in the pot and a small raise won't drive anyone out.

[Dariel86]

I wouldn't have made a raise either. If someone calls that your probably behind anyway if an overcard shows up on the flop.


-Dariel

[nortonmalc]

If it is me a make a decent size pre-flop bet. You're a lot better with JJ when there are fewer people in the pot, plus if you know there are probably only premium hands left, you can feel fairly confident betting out if there are only undercards. But that's just my personal preference. I would rather make the big pre-flop bet and then lay it down if an overcard hits on the flop than to leave a bunch of rags hanging around and hit two pair on me in a situation where I may think my JJ is good.

[microbet]

I would have limped preflop, in the first round of a low buyin game.

After the flop though, what hand limp-calls preflop and then bets less than 1/3 the pot? I think villian was just trying to stop you from betting.

Either raise to 200 and find out there or call and check down because I would think he is very likely to let that happen.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
I would have limped preflop, in the first round of a low buyin game.

After the flop though, what hand limp-calls preflop and then bets less than 1/3 the pot? I think villian was just trying to stop you from betting.

Either raise to 200 and find out there or call and check down because I would think he is very likely to let that happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

My problem with the latter line is that I've done this before in a similar situation and ended up calling two more microbets when rags fall on the turn and river. Then villain shows down a weak queen and I'm down to 450 chips. Is it worth that for the chance to improve (or maybe that I'm ahead) or should I be done after the flop call?

[adanthar]

I said 'raise PF', not 'raise to 1/8 of your stack' /images/graemlins/tongue.gif. Make it 65-75 and now it's far less painful.

Incidentally I would lean towards a raise here because the particular bet size looks like an underpair, not a Q.

[callmedonnie]

A smaller preflop raise may have been an easier lay down, but you did manage to gain position and isolate jacks against one player. So far so good. The bet from the opponent is pretty weak. Raising would buy some more information so I like that option, especially as his bet looks weak. He may be baiting you though with his queen. I think folding isn't as bad an option either. I am less inclined to call. You may buy a free card. If an ace or king hits, it gives you a good chance to bluff if he does have a queen but he may be one of those guys who never folds an ace with money already in pot, and just hit two pair. Calling complicates your decision.

All in all jacks get beat, and that's why everyone hates them. I think a preflop raise is necessary. With smaller pairs I won't raise as often you get callers anyway, and the raise is now for value. Value bets w/ small pocket pairs are not profitable. Jacks are different. Nothing wrong with your play in my opinion.

[microbet]

If you choose the line to call the 75, then you should not call a bet on the turn and only a tiny bet on the river unless of course you improve.

If you would call bets on the turn and river without improving then you should raise on the flop. If he calls you, you are probably beat and if he calls and then is willing to bet into you later, you are almost certainly beat.