How close do you stand by the rules

[peccotrice]

This may be a silly question for 2+2'ers but... I'm curious how much people stick to the "rules" of starting hands. Do you find yourself raising with 10-3os? Or do you stick to the starting hands and associated behaviors almost religiously.... oh, and how profitable are you? If you break the rules and are profitable, I wanna know...

[MikeR]

I imagine the answer's gonna be, "It depends".

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
This may be a silly question for 2+2'ers but... I'm curious how much people stick to the "rules" of starting hands. Do you find yourself raising with 10-3os? Or do you stick to the starting hands and associated behaviors almost religiously.... oh, and how profitable are you? If you break the rules and are profitable, I wanna know...

[/ QUOTE ]

The rules are there for those that haven't made their own yet. Beginners should go by them because it'll keep them out of trouble in later stages of the hand.

When you get better, what you should be doing is playing the situation, not the hands. I'll raise with T3o if I think I can profit from it later. This doesn't work often at low limit hold em, so I very, very rarely do it, but it occasionally works.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
I imagine the answer's gonna be, "It depends".

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, that's the answer.

However, I probably play the "standard" (SSHE recommended) starting hands about 95%+ of the time. The only times I'll deviate is if I'm to the right of someone who is very weak at protecting their blinds and I can steal from the button profitably with weaker hands than I'd normally play.

The only other time I might play a weak hand is if I have sooted cards and I'm in late position and have 8 or 9 callers with no raises, ensuring a large pot. The pot odds are enough to justify a call -- but these instances are few and far between.

[Reef]

sometimes after getting a horrible beat, my semi tilt method is to play marginal hands in any position. Other than that, it's kind of a 'by feel' thing.. limpers, position, table type.

[peccotrice]

I find that the "beginners" don't even know the suggested hands! That's one of the things that makes low stakes poker a pITA for me at times. I wonder if moving up in stakes helps you find players that aren't "playing" everything. I hate sitting down at a .5/1 NL or 1/2 NL table online and watching pre-flop raises 75% of the time, and upwards of 5+BB!

You could say I have my own "feel" for when to play what, but that hurts me more on low stakes games that I think it might if I went up to higher stakes games..

[mmcd]

There are no rules. Only situations.

[Snoogins47]

I was gonna say... rules? And here I am, basing my decisions on how my opponents are playing, what happened before me, and all these other "soft" standards. My bad.

[OrangeKing]

[ QUOTE ]
I find that the "beginners" don't even know the suggested hands! That's one of the things that makes low stakes poker a pITA for me at times. I wonder if moving up in stakes helps you find players that aren't "playing" everything. I hate sitting down at a .5/1 NL or 1/2 NL table online and watching pre-flop raises 75% of the time, and upwards of 5+BB!

You could say I have my own "feel" for when to play what, but that hurts me more on low stakes games that I think it might if I went up to higher stakes games..

[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds a lot like a "I need to play against better players!" post. You want to be playing against bad people who raise too much and play way too many hands. This is a very good thing for you. You will win more money than you would against better players in a "calmer" game.

[gamblore99]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I find that the "beginners" don't even know the suggested hands! That's one of the things that makes low stakes poker a pITA for me at times. I wonder if moving up in stakes helps you find players that aren't "playing" everything. I hate sitting down at a .5/1 NL or 1/2 NL table online and watching pre-flop raises 75% of the time, and upwards of 5+BB!

You could say I have my own "feel" for when to play what, but that hurts me more on low stakes games that I think it might if I went up to higher stakes games..

[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds a lot like a "I need to play against better players!" post. You want to be playing against bad people who raise too much and play way too many hands. This is a very good thing for you. You will win more money than you would against better players in a "calmer" game.

[/ QUOTE ]

[MLG]

The best answer for you to hear is that when you start off you never ever ever break the rules. After you are comfortable with the rules you may then in certain situations deviate from them. However, those times when you do deviate you must have a clear and concise reason for doing so. After doing this for a period of time, you will be able to instinctively make those adjustments based on situation and feel. That last step, however, cannot be reached without a complete understanding of the two prior steps. There are no shortcuts in this process unless you are Tommy Angelo.

[peccotrice]

We all know this game is complex. So I'm leaving that out in this post. I just find that people throw money all over the place. This is where the instictive places that you would call or raise get otta whack because you have to ask yourself "Am i gonna call or raise a 5-10 preflop bet in a .5/1 game with a weak hand?"

[peccotrice]

True, but that's my point. In doing so, you have to play more by the "rules" (guidelines) that you would in a "tighter" game... right?

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
We all know this game is complex. So I'm leaving that out in this post. I just find that people throw money all over the place. This is where the instictive places that you would call or raise get otta whack because you have to ask yourself "Am i gonna call or raise a 5-10 preflop bet in a .5/1 game with a weak hand?"

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a common misconception. You're basically saying "Since everyone else at my table is playing like a fish, I better play like a fish if I want to win." If you take some time to think about it, it's obvious that this isn't what you want to be doing.

The reason is because since there is a larger number of players in every pot, there's a much greater chance that one of your opponents will "luck" into a big hand. You need to play hands that'll potentially turn into a monster. It's almost like the 9 other players are "Team Fish" and you're playing against all of them as "Team Shark". You need to play hands that have a good chance of beating 6+ opponents.

When you get strong pocket cards, raise to make the fish pay to see the flop. When the flop is good for you, raise and re-raise them to make it expensive for them to stay in. If your hand is still strong on the turn and river, keep raising. You want to put as many $$$ in the pot when you play hands like AKs and hit your flush. In the type of game you described, there will be fish who called with lower sooted cards who made a lower flush and will stay in, or who are holding A2o and keep calling hoping to catch an A on the river.

The trap you don't want to fall into is playing hands like 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif because "everyone else at the table is playing hands like that". Even if you flop a flush, you can still lose to a higher flush (like someone holding 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif) or a boat...and since there are so many callers someone is bound to outdraw you.

Even worse is holding a hand like 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif and the flop comes 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif7 /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Yup, you've made your straight so you're raising and re-raising...but oops...another /images/graemlins/club.gif comes on the river and you lose to the fish who hung in there with 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif3 /images/graemlins/club.gif. Or oops...another 6 comes on the river so you lose to the fish who played 96o and now has his boat...or oops...a T comes on the river, so you lose to a fish who played J8o and now has a higher straight. Because you're facing so many loose opponents, if you play weak hands like 85s, you'll usually lose even when you make your hand.

[peccotrice]

Then in summary - kinda like the book says - a loose table you play tight - a tight table you can play loose.

I've just never "memorized" the "rules" and played them religiously, and so I was curious what the 2+2ers do.

[wabe]

[ QUOTE ]
Then in summary - kinda like the book says - a loose table you play tight - a tight table you can play loose.

I've just never "memorized" the "rules" and played them religiously, and so I was curious what the 2+2ers do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Looser on a tight table, not loose. If the table is tight, you still don't want to play things like T3o without a good reason. Playing low suited connectors in EP/MP is more likely.

[Sully]

[ QUOTE ]
There are no shortcuts in this process unless you are Tommy Angelo.

[/ QUOTE ]

In which case you make sure you have position, then check.

[HopeydaFish]

[ QUOTE ]
Then in summary - kinda like the book says - a loose table you play tight - a tight table you can play loose.

I've just never "memorized" the "rules" and played them religiously, and so I was curious what the 2+2ers do.

[/ QUOTE ]

You memorize the "rules" when you first start playing (or you print off a cheat sheet to sit by your monitor), but then after awhile you just start to know instinctivel what cards are appropriate to play based on your position, the pot odds, and the types of opponents you're facing.