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sthief09
03-03-2005, 03:28 AM
not enough hands for any specific reads (reads aka what the computer tells me), but they both seem typical, ie 30/10 types who are reasonably aggressive postflop

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. CO posts a blind of $15.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls.

Flop: (11.66 SB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (10.33 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero...

fold or call?
if call, what's my river action: if it's bet to me, if it's checked to me?
SGS
03-03-2005, 03:30 AM
Folds. I probably cap PF to make the hand play easier.

SGS
sthief09
03-03-2005, 03:33 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Folds. I probably cap PF to make the hand play easier.

SGS

[/ QUOTE ]


that doesn't make the hand play easier at all. it makes it harder to play because I have less information (whether the original raiser caps and who wants to bet the flop)
mr pink
03-03-2005, 03:35 AM
anywhere else i think this is a fold, but with the laggros at 15/30 i'm not sure. i'd say call here and call any non ace or king river, as long as mp2 keeps quiet.
Kailia Marie
03-03-2005, 03:40 AM
Hi sthief09,

I would cap this preflop, though I understand the argument agaisnt it, but against a typical range of raising and 3-betting hands, JJ will hold up its fair share, especially if AK, AQ, TT gets thrown in the mix. It's an MP2 openraise and a MP3 3-bet. Its not as if its UTG, UTG+1.

All that said, the flop is a good spot to raise. When you get 3-bet on the flop you must call to spike a set or hit your backdoor draw.

On the turn, what can you possibly be beating here? The flop was not draw heavy. MP3 3-bet preflop and 3-bet this flop and lead the turn on a blank. A hand that cannot beat JJ will not do that. I vote fold and it's not really that close, IMO.

/images/graemlins/heart.gifKailia
SGS
03-03-2005, 03:42 AM
By capping pre-flop they react to you and you announce your strength. I don't know I am used to playing lower than this and the players I play against are probably easier to manipulate, but it just seems to me by announcing strength and having opponents react to you it would make the hand play easier.

SGS
sthief09
03-03-2005, 03:44 AM
good post. welcome

I'm sure most will say to cap preflop there. I wanted to give the original raiser a chance to cap it to see what I was up against. not capping also lets the action develop in front of me on the flop, rather than it getting checked to me almost every time.
RyGreen18
03-03-2005, 03:45 AM
im folding this, especially with someone left to act. i dont think your good here enough times against two opponents to make this profitable, especially which only 2 redraws. calling down heads up seems standard, but the 3rd opponent makes this a fold IMO
Michael Davis
03-03-2005, 03:46 AM
The play of seeing if it gets capped would be much more useful if the raiser came in from earlier. As it is, I probably just cap and get the money right away.

Also I'm playing 0.01-0.02 NL on Stars. Come and play.

-Michael
sthief09
03-03-2005, 03:49 AM
I don't think you gain anything by overrepresenting your hand. first of all, you go into the flop not knowing how much the original raiser likes his hand. then, it goes checkcheck most of the time. if I don't cap, I get to see if the original raiser caps. this reminds me of the AQo hand, where I didn't liek raising because you defer your position. that's exactly what I'd do here with a cap. the flop would go checkcheck and I'd have no clue how much my opponents like their hands. then I get check raised or slowplayed 100% of the time. then what? call down? how does this help?
sthief09
03-03-2005, 03:50 AM
I'm falling asleep. I had a crappy session. 19 sets in 2000 hands and -2300. RIGGED
SGS
03-03-2005, 04:07 AM
I don't know. This hand I think will be tricky no matter how you play it. The way you played it ends up being tricky and the way I think I might play it doesn't seem to be any easier. Obviously you raise some good points and I don't know exactly what I would do in lots of situations if I cap pre-flop.

SGS
Catch of the Day
03-03-2005, 05:55 AM
[ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/heart.gifKailia

[/ QUOTE ]

I want to know what known poster is giving advice under a psuedonym...

Thats what I want to know...

Catch-
Kailia Marie
03-03-2005, 06:09 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/heart.gifKailia

[/ QUOTE ]

I want to know what known poster is giving advice under a psuedonym...

Thats what I want to know...

Catch-

[/ QUOTE ]

The Madator? LOL. No, I'm a long time lurker here. I just thought it was about time that I started posting.

/images/graemlins/heart.gif Kailia
Nick C
03-03-2005, 06:10 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm falling asleep. I had a crappy session. 19 sets in 2000 hands and -2300. RIGGED

[/ QUOTE ]

If I ever manage to work my way up to 15/30, I think that, beyond adjusting to the game, it'll take me awhile just to get used to the stakes.
Catch of the Day
03-03-2005, 06:18 AM
[ QUOTE ]
The Madator? LOL. No, I'm a long time lurker here. I just thought it was about time that I started posting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Long time lurker with proficient knowledge of the texture of the 15/30 game???

*Catch quietly calls BS to himself and thinks that this smells of _ _ _.

Catch-
Kailia Marie
03-03-2005, 06:27 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Long time lurker with proficient knowledge of the texture of the 15/30 game???

[/ QUOTE ]

Nowhere in my post did I suggest I knew anything about 15/30, though I take it as a compliment that my first post was a good one. So thanks. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
*Catch quietly calls BS to himself and thinks that this smells of _ _ _.

[/ QUOTE ]

GoT? CDC? TSP?

/images/graemlins/heart.gifKailia
WillMagic
03-03-2005, 07:45 AM
I think you can definitely lay this down on the turn. If the pot were heads-up you'd have some considering...but being as this is multi-way, he's a lot less likely to play AK in this manner.

On another point...is anyone else laying this down preflop? I don't remember the last time it's been three-bet to me when I had jacks...but I think I generally fold it here, and I'd like to know if I'm a) normal or b) not so smart.

Will
masonx
03-03-2005, 08:12 AM
im folding on the turn mainly because i cant call a river bet unless i hit my jack. and not to mention your definately already beat.
masonx
03-03-2005, 08:15 AM
[ QUOTE ]

On another point...is anyone else laying this down preflop? I don't remember the last time it's been three-bet to me when I had jacks...but I think I generally fold it here, and I'd like to know if I'm a) normal or b) not so smart.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its close, HEFAP says its a fold. I have a hard time getting away from J's preflop anywhere except when its capped to me though.
shalam
03-03-2005, 08:21 AM
masonx
03-03-2005, 08:22 AM
[ QUOTE ]
great site here! just look (http://www.stock-clothes.lt) /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

what???

people are really weird...
Michael Davis
03-03-2005, 05:16 PM
HEPFAP doesn't say this is a fold. The raise and threebet come from too late to consider folding this hand. If the first raise comes earlier it's a whole different ballgame.

-Michael
masonx
03-03-2005, 06:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]
HEPFAP doesn't say this is a fold. The raise and threebet come from too late to consider folding this hand. If the first raise comes earlier it's a whole different ballgame.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats true thanks for specifying
BottlesOf
03-03-2005, 07:07 PM
FWIW, I cap this pf. Increase the chances of the blinds folding from high to higher, and possibly fold MP2. He was an open raiser 3 off the button, so he might be weak and fold to the cap? If not, it's probably for value as well. MP3's 3-betting range also is broadened and he might be trying to isolate/purchase the button. Capping also may put the fear of god in them, whereas a cold call of a 3 bet may appear fishy, just some thooughts...
aas
03-03-2005, 07:22 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

On another point...is anyone else laying this down preflop? I don't remember the last time it's been three-bet to me when I had jacks...but I think I generally fold it here, and I'd like to know if I'm a) normal or b) not so smart.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its close, HEFAP says its a fold. I have a hard time getting away from J's preflop anywhere except when its capped to me though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd have to go back and check what HPFAP says but,

This is Party 15/30. I don't play at that level but my underestanding is that the raising standards are lower for typical players there. On top of that, the guy open raised in MIDDLE position, which lowers his range of holdings further. The three bettor is obviously trying to isolate, so his reraise doesn't necessarily mean QQ or better either.

No way I fold JJ here.