View Full Version : I like this one
I have AJss in LMP and open raise in a party full 5/10 game. I am 3-bet by the small blind and I call. No notes for the SB.
FLOP- A,10,3 (suits irrelevant)
SB bets and I call.
Turn- 5
SB checks and I check.
River- 3
SB bets and I call. He shows 88 and MHIG. THoughts? I like the turn check what do you all think? Thanks in advance.
SGS
mantasm
03-03-2005, 02:53 AM
I usually just call the flop here.
On the turn, once he checks I'd rather give him a chance to fold a hand with 4 or 5 outs. Free cards are bad. If you check the turn, I think you should raise the river.
Catch of the Day
03-03-2005, 02:59 AM
I don't really. I think not betting the turn is a mistake. Although getting check raised sucks, so does missing a value-bet when he could be seeing a showdown. Yeah you could be dominated, but there are lots of hands he would 3-bet PF with that you are ahead.
This line was way too passive for me.
Catch-
LSU POKER PIMP
03-03-2005, 02:59 AM
i would have raised on the turn and definantly raised the river
DemonDeac
03-03-2005, 03:06 AM
him checking the turn ABSOLUTELY SMELLS like weakness. i would def bet that here and then lead the river, as the SB will prolly check since u bet the turn.
einbert
03-03-2005, 03:15 AM
I think he is going to call you down with his 88 most of the time here, and if he has some kind of draw he is going to pay on the turn but not the river.
That said, against an aggressive opponent who will always bluff the river with nothing, I really like the turn check. Against an unknown I prefer a bet.
I realize his checking the turn is weakness. I don't want him to fold a two outer which is what it seems like he has. If I would have bet the turn he would have most likely folded. Checking picked me up a river bet I believe.
SGS
If I raise the river what worse hands call me?
SGS
I know once he checks the turn I am ahead. I am trying to get more money from him. Giving his most likely holding (pocket pair smaller than A) a free card is not a disaster.
SGS
He was not totally unknown I should say. I had been playing for around an hour and paying a little attention and in all of his altercations he seemed reasonable.
SGS
On the turn he didn't bet so I couldn't raise, I am assuming you meant bet. On the river I don't see a worse hand calling me here.
SGS
mantasm
03-03-2005, 03:31 AM
[ QUOTE ]
If I raise the river what worse hands call me?
[/ QUOTE ]
How about any pocket pair and any 10-broadway? Sometimes king high. He probably would have called you with 88 about 80 percent of the time.
[ QUOTE ]
Giving his most likely holding (pocket pair smaller than A) a free card is not a disaster.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think it's just as likely he has something like KQ or KT-JT that has 4 or 5 outs. I don't like giving him a free card here.
I didn't say it in my original post, but he seemed reasonable in prior play, so I am pretty sure he would not 3-bet me out of the SB with a broadway 10 and I really doubt he is paying me off with anything other than KK-JJ to a river raise. But given this range of pay-offs it seems reasonable now to raise the river simply in case he has KK-JJ.
SGS
DeezNutz3
03-03-2005, 03:42 AM
This is 5/10 full not .50/1, I don't see where you come up with the hands that call the river.
mantasm
03-03-2005, 03:52 AM
Okay, king high is stretching it, but a 10 and lots of pocket pairs will call, especially after you check the turn then raise the river. It's confusing, and when confused, people are going to call.
You have to think of his possible holdings which are calling my river raise. In my opinion there is no way he holds a 10 unless it is 10,10 or A10s. Both of these hands I get three bet by and lose more. Pocket pairs are possible and the only ones I think he would call a river raise are JJ-KK.
I played a hand very similar to this which led me to this line in which I had AK and the flop came K high. I called a bet from the SB which I was 3-bet by pre-flop and then bet the turn when checked to. He showed me 99 and folded.
SGS
mantasm
03-03-2005, 04:09 AM
I think he will frequently have a worse hand that will call a raise. I can't imagine him having a better hand here. Why wouldn't you raise the river?
Catch of the Day
03-03-2005, 04:15 AM
[ QUOTE ]
It seems reasonable now to raise the river simply in case he has KK-JJ.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think raising the river is poor as well. I don't think you can call a three bet here. Bet the turn. You know what you hold, and you have a read on you oponent, but what is this "reasonable" players is read on you .
With his range of hands, is he more likely to be check- folding, check-calling, or check raising the turn in relation to what he puts you on. I might be giving more credit then is due, but better more, then less.
Catch-
I agree it is not likely he has a better hand than me here. The only thing I disagree with is the hands you say he will call a river raise with. The only hands I think he would call me with on the river if I raise are KK-JJ as I said earlier, he appeared somewhat reasonable. Raising the river is not simply a matter of me thinking I have the best hand, it is a matter of me thinking he will call me with a worse hand, which at the time I didn't he would often enough. Although it would seem you think he does call a river raise with a lot of junk.
SGS
Why bet the turn when his most likely holding has 2 outs against me, that is a pocket pair smaller than A. The only hand I want to bet the turn against is a hand like KQ who has a gutshot draw against me. Everything else has 2 outs and will most likely fold to a turn bet.
SGS
Catch of the Day
03-03-2005, 04:27 AM
What are the chances you think he is check-folding the turn, vs. Check-calling, vs. Check raising???
Catch-
I figure him to call a turn bet with JJ-KK, though it seems to me he would be more likely to bet out with these holdings and he therefore would appear less likely to have them. I figure him to fold any pocket below 10. I figure him to check-raise with a set, or two pair. So the way the hand has played thus far leads me to believe the majority of the time I will get check-raised or check-folded if I bet.
SGS
Catch of the Day
03-03-2005, 05:16 AM
You make a good argument, I think I am stuck in my 2/4 mindset. You make good points. If A10 is unlikely, and you think that he is check folding Hands you beat and check raising ones you dont, then I guess I do in fact "like" your play. I guess I just feel as if more hands are plausible PF, as is the liklihood that he will check-call with a looser. I could be very mistaken about this.
Given your reasoning, I still don't raise the river.
Catch-
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