Screwed it up at first.. am I thinking right now? [Archive]

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Guelph

03-02-2005, 09:17 PM

My original thoughts in blue, my hindsight thoughts in red...

I know I screwed it up the first time. The hand has been haunting me today so I want to make sure I've got the right train of thought on it now.

PokerStars Game #1290839735: Tournament #5650870, Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2005/03/01 - 22:06:51 (ET) Table '5650870 13' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: MP2 (3190 in chips)
Seat 2: MP3 (4966 in chips)
Seat 3: Guelph (8998 in chips)
Seat 4: Button (3440 in chips)
Seat 5: SB (16863 in chips) (Read: very aggressive)
Seat 6: BB (18810 in chips)
Seat 7: UTG (15597 in chips) (No Read yet)
Seat 8: UTG+1 (9774 in chips)
Seat 9: MP1 (9400 in chips) (No good read)

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Guelph [7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif]
UTG: folds
UTG+1: folds
MP1: raises 600 to 800
MP2: folds
MP3: folds
Guelph: calls 800
At the time I'm thinking MP1 probably has either 2 high cards, a decent Ace or another PP. I'm probably at a coinflip at best. 
 I should be thinking if it's a coinflip, if I'm willing to gamble I should give a raise here to isolate, and decide if he re-raises whether or not to play. If I'm not willing to gamble I can fold if he re-raises. I should raise to? 2400???
Button: folds
SB: calls 700
 He's been in a lot of pots, could be any 2 suited, any 2 straight, any 2 high cards... 
BB: calls 600
 Pot odds were enough for any two here. 
Pot is 3425
*** FLOP *** [9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif]
 Not a bad flop, no flush draws, and while the pair is over mine, at least the odd card is under mine. 
SB: checks
BB: checks
MP1: checks
Guelph: bets 2000
 Maybe they all missed and I can pick this up here. 
 If I had raised preflop, a big PP would've shown itself by now, and most hands holding a 9 should've folded. 
SB: raises 2000 to 4000
 Crap. Why did I let him catch a hand here? 
 Crap. I'm screwed here, right? I have to call, right? 
BB: folds
MP1: calls 4000
 Pot odds with any draw? 
Guelph: raises 4173 to 8173 and is all-in
 I just hope it's still a race.. 
 Run away!! Run away!! Run away!! 
SB: raises 7865 to 16038 and is all-in
MP1: calls 4575 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [9d 9s 5c] [9h]
*** RIVER *** [9d 9s 5c 9h] [Ah]
*** SHOW DOWN ***

SB: shows [9c Kh] (four of a kind, Nines)
MP1: shows [5s 5h] (a full house, Nines full of Fives)
Guelph: shows [7d 7h] (a full house, Nines full of Sevens)

Noel Montgomery

03-02-2005, 09:30 PM

Harrington says call preflop, and that's the strategy I've taken in these situations. In hindsight, sure you think you should have re-raised, but I'm not sure if this is a profitable play for this situation in the long run.

I like your bet on the flop, but would be very worried after a raise and a check/call. I fold here. Also, MP1 should have gone all in here, but he got greedy. However, he was probably going to get burned no matter what.

JaBlue

03-02-2005, 09:46 PM

The preflop call is good. The flop bet is fine, but not optimal. A bet of 1500 would accomplish the same thing. You could probably bet even less, say 1200. When you get a minraise and a flat caller in front of you, though, you have to lay down. There are just no hands that you beat.

DesertCat

03-02-2005, 09:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have to call, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you put him on nine, you can't call. The pot is a little over 13k and you have to call 2k, that's 6.5:1. Hitting your set is 22:1.

And you have to put someone on a nine or an overpair here. The fact that the other guy called makes me highly suspicious. It's just too infrequent that they both have worse hands than you, and improving your hand is way too unlikely.

Kronon

03-03-2005, 04:42 AM

I think you should smooth call before flop. If you raise and are reraised, its usually very hard to get away from the hand, and you are often up against a higher pp.

The bet after the flop is fine, but when one guy raises and another cold calls, its time to get out. You simply cant win here. Even with AA its a dubious call at this spot.

My thought after the flop would be something like:
1. I want to find out if anyone have a 9 or a overpair
2. I bet a decent size bet (50% or the pot or so)
3. I will get worried by callers
4. I will fold to raisers
5. I will definitely fold against a raise and a cold caller

Jason Strasser

03-03-2005, 06:13 AM

Set objectives. You have 77 and its multihanded. Your bet on the flop when its checked to you is fine, because that flop rocked, but once you face any resistance let it go.

This hand is not hard. Usually you want to play 77 for set and with a crappy field you have plenty implied odds to see a flop here. Reraising pf is dumb as you lose the chance to bust a higher pair or are often in a race or dominated situation if you get it all in pf.

Just keep it simple. All this inner mologue crap can go out the window. Play 77, look for 7 on flop. If its not there, play poker and proceed with the usual caution of having one medium pair in a multi-handed pot.

-Jason

FoxwoodsFiend

03-03-2005, 09:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
HAlso, MP1 should have gone all in here, but he got greedy. However, he was probably going to get burned no matter what.

[/ QUOTE ]
Huh? He would've gotten saved if he hadn't raised. Turn comes a 9, and you can now fold easily with a counterfeited full house. How do you figure he's going broke?