Diversification of Bankroll

[Mark Heide]

I'm posting this subject to see what the consensus is among players. How much of your earnings from live play should you risk on tournaments?

For myself, I have decided that live play is extremely profitable compared to tournaments and have cut down to only playing a few events a year. So, my budget for tournaments is 10% of my profits from live play. When I first started playing tournaments, I ended up spending all my profits on tournaments and have determined that this was a big mistake. Furthermore, I now have decided that I will only play in events that provide the chance to win a big bankroll, so I have limited myself to only playing events at the WPO and WSOP.

Any comments welcome.

Mark

[MS Sunshine]

I spend about 25-30% of my internet play mix, playing tournaments. It is not a losing section, but I have more profitable sections with less swings. My tournament live is zero. I never played them. I had tax and collusion concerns then.

But, I have an outlook that the internet tournaments will draw in alot of novice players chasing the big paydays. So, in the chase of a future revenue stream, I'm willing to give up the current higher earn, while I improve my tournament strategy.

MS Sunshine

[Mark Heide]

MS Sunshine,

I don't play on the internet for real money, I have considered it but there are too many drawbacks. The biggest is most of these Casinos don't even have a mailing address. If the business is located in the Bahamas and they have a hurricane that destroys all there servers or backups how will you get your money? The only online Casino I've considered is CCC Poker because it is a real Casino. The other problem is the US Government is doing all it can to block transfers of funds to online Casinos. With that being said, I have a good poker room an hour drive from where I live that is great for live action, and I take trips to Tunica and Vegas for some of the tournament events.

I do use the PokerPages site to practice playing tournaments, so I can work on my skills, which does help me when I do play the real events.

Good Luck

Mark

[Greg (FossilMan)]

You seem to have determined that you're not a winning tournament player, so that you're limiting your losses by limiting your attempts. At least, that's how it reads.

Some players have +EV at tourneys but not in live games. Clearly they should spend all their bankroll on tourneys. Others can win at live and not tourneys. If you have +EV in both venues, then it boils down to the size of your EV and the size of your fluctuations compared to your bankroll. And don't forget the fun factor. Not only do I think my EV (relative to the size of investment) is higher in tourneys, I think they're a lot more fun.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[Mark Heide]

Greg,

Don't make assumptions about what you do not know. Just because you are successful at your weekly low-limit buy-in tournaments does not indicate your results in large buy-in events. So, far you appear not to be good at these larger events that are eating up your bankroll.

With that being said, I have not played enough events, according to Sklansky, that would indicate if I am a losing tournament player or not at these events, since I play few of them.

Anyway, the only method I had of indicating if I had a chance of winning tournaments was all the freerolls I had played last year at PokerStars. I had played 51 events. If I use the WPO model for the $500 buy-in and pay 9 spots for every 100 entries. This would cost me $27,540 in entry fees. Gross winnings were $48,500 - entry fees $27,540 = $20960 profits. This is estimating and I consider the skill level in these events similar to playing at the weekly Orleans Events.

I have decided because of the cost of playing the larger events to spread them out over the next few years, so I don't jepordize my bankroll like you did this year.

Good Luck

Mark

[Greg (FossilMan)]

Mark,

I wasn't making assumptions. I was interpreting the words of your post. I have no idea how good you are at tournaments, because I do not know your records, nor have I played with you in one. It was simply the way you worded your post. It made it sound like you expected to lose money at tourneys.

Of course, if bankroll is critical (such as a pro earning their living), then you can't invest a large fraction of your bankroll in one event. If I had been earning my living at poker, I would not have taken 2/3 of my bankroll to the WSOP, unless I was only going to use it in sidegames that fit within that bankroll. However, I can continue on with or without backers. So it has not been a disaster, just an unfortunate setback.

Anyway, I still feel that if someone is much better at tourneys than at cash games, they should be investing their bankroll primarily in tourneys. They just might have to stick to events that are cheaper than the WSOP.

Also, I feel that I am quite good at these larger events. If we only count events that are priced at $1500 and up, I have won quite a bit more than I have lost. If we add in events below $1500, I've won even more.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[Mark Heide]

Greg,

I know that you are good at ring game action, so you can't use the argument that you are better at tournaments, because you made most of your money in the past year at side action. Plus, since I know you are good at side games why pay out 25%to 35% of your profits just so you can play at foxwoods this year? I believe that you are addicted to the action of tournaments.

As far as my tournaments record for satellites and other events in Vegas, you can read the archives. I've posted trip reports on all of my tournament action in Vegas for the past three years. When I have, the only time I can remember you making any comments was after my trip report for the last Carnivale of Poker in LV.

Good Luck

Mark

[Greg (FossilMan)]

Mark, just because I read your trip reports, I don't presume that I know the entirety of your results in touranments.

Thanks for the compliments on my ring game play. However, I'm pretty sure I'm significantly better at tourneys than ring games. Except maybe for PLH and PLO, where I do extremely well, especially if the money is very, very deep.

While I have made a lot of money at side action this year, and a majority last year, in most of the years before that I made more than half my profit each year on tourneys.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[Mark Heide]

Greg,

I only picked on you because you publicially are asking to be backed. It's not personal. With that being said I wish you great success. In January, the WPO in Tunica would be a great place for you to go to play PLO and PLH. The turnout last January was much better than the side action at the WSOP this year (more games to choose from). Plus, I think this January will be even better, since they will not be running the Reno tournament there should be a lot of players from California.

Good Luck

Mark

[Greg (FossilMan)]

Well, I must admit I was starting to wonder if you were picking on me or playing a very aggressive game of Devil's Advocate. I'm glad it's the latter.

I certainly hope to go to the WPO in January. My present backing deal will be concluded at that time, but that's OK since we'll all be rich by then. ;-)

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)