I Got a Fever, and the Only Cure is More FPS

[sthief09]

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Hero calls, <font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (1.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB folds, Hero calls.

River: (3.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 5.50 BB

[BDP]

did you check the flop to induce betting on the turn and river?

[PokerBob]

Why not pop the river?

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
Why not pop the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, not raising on the turn or river is awful. should've raised the turn

[Chris Daddy Cool]

thats not a really good river for you. so not raising is perfectly fine.

oh you meant the flop check? yea, i do that sometimes too.

[Nate tha' Great]

This is retarded IMHO.

[W. Deranged]

I'm not sure I totally understand the flop check, but, putting that aside I also don't understand why a turn raise wouldn't make sense here. If the SB has a king, he's probably staying around following the flop check. A smooth call on the turn may induce a check from SB on the river anyway. The decision comes down to weighing how often SB is bluffing (or betting a worse hand thinking its good) and will drop to turn pressure (costing you a bet compared to how you play it) vs. how often SB is betting a worse hand (like a medium K) and will pay you off an extra bet if you raise the turn. My suspicion is that the second is more likely and so a turn raise is correct, particularly considering the fact that SB may not lead the turn anyway.


One obvious thing to consider is what to do if you get three-bet on the turn. With the pot about 6.5 big bets at that point and the prospect of facing a river bet, I may not give myself much more than 20% equity. So I'd lean toward folding. Thoughts?

[Chris Daddy Cool]

i think nate has it out for josh.

[bakku]

[ QUOTE ]
This is retarded IMHO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nate is one of my favorite posters.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
i think nate has it out for josh.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he's trying too hard to incorporate some variant plays into his game in spots where at the very least it won't gain him much. And that he's reading too much Angie Harmon, lol.

[Eurotrash]

Is this actually fancy..? or the so-called Tommy Angelo-itis. I think I would have found a raise on that turn

Thoughts?

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
This is retarded IMHO.

[/ QUOTE ]


why? I I didn't see what I gained by betting the flop. I figuredI can win a lot more by checking. they would've bet out with most pairs

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is retarded IMHO.

[/ QUOTE ]


why? I I didn't see what I gained by betting the flop. I figuredI can win a lot more by checking. they would've bet out with most pairs

[/ QUOTE ]

1) You give a free card to a gutshot, or two-pair draw.
2) They don't need much to call.
3) They don't need much to play back at you.
4) You get less action if someone has a worse ace.
5) You'd bet with JTs.

[sthief09]

yeah, I really can't argue with any of that. and I really am trying to many of these variant plays. I played one hand so stupid you'd want to throw up if I posted it

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
yeah, I really can't argue with any of that. and I really am trying to many of these variant plays. I played one hand so stupid you'd want to throw up if I posted it

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my best ChrisDaddyCool impression.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (8.66 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.33 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB caps</font>, UTG+2 folds, MP2 calls, Hero folds.

River: (18.33 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, MP2 checks.

Final Pot: 18.33 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BB has Td 9d (two pair, tens and twos).
MP2 has Jd 9c (one pair, twos).
Outcome: BB wins 18.33 BB. </font>

[sthief09]

you definitely get style poitns for the cold-3-bet/fold combination

[Chris Daddy Cool]

awesome... don't feel too bad about the fold though. in the long run tough folds will be huge +$$$ for you.

[LoaferGee12]

The reason I'd rather bet this flop is because it comes from last position and will look more like a bluff than give away your hand. You maybe even get check-raised here by a mid or bottom pair and you will definitely be called by a pair of any sort. That being said, I still don't think your losing too much by checking the flop. The way you played it I would've raised basically any other river.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
thats not a really good river for you. so not raising is perfectly fine.


[/ QUOTE ]
I thought not raising the river was pretty bad. Are you that worried about a deuce? Or is there something I'm missing? It really doesn't look to scary to me.

[me454555]

Needs more cowbell

Flop check is fine

[mtdoak]

May I say, I read your posts just for that avatar. I bust up every time.

[bobdibble]

You're folding because you are putting BB or MP2 on a set here or something wonky like 79? Won't he have a non-KK overpair or some other holding you are drawing live against often enough in order to justify calling 1 more on the turn?

I think I would call the turn and then re-evaluate my situration on the river if I don't improve based on how scary the card is and the action.

Or are you afraid that even if you improve it is going to cost too much to show down in the event BB and MP2 continue to agro'out on the river? (By 3-betting you effecively nixed the ability to see how agro MP2 was going to get on the turn)

Help me understand....

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
Needs more cowbell

[/ QUOTE ]

When we're done with this thread, y'all will be
wearing gold-plated diapers

[Nate tha' Great]

I'm saying I *don't* think I can fold to a 3-bet on the turn, which makes me less inclined to raise. Actually I think I like a flop raise a lot better than a turn raise here if I had to pick.

[bobdibble]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm saying I *don't* think I can fold to a 3-bet on the turn, which makes me less inclined to raise. Actually I think I like a flop raise a lot better than a turn raise here if I had to pick.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am talking about the hand you posted, where you did fold. CDC seemed to agree that it was a good-tough fold.

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: (6.33 BB) T (4 players)
BB bets, UTG+2 calls, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, UTG+2 folds, MP2 calls, Hero folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
The decision comes down to weighing how often SB is bluffing (or betting a worse hand thinking its good) and will drop to turn pressure (costing you a bet compared to how you play it) vs. how often SB is betting a worse hand (like a medium K) and will pay you off an extra bet if you raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
What about the possibility that he is betting spades? I think that is pretty likely and is one of the reasons to raise the turn.