Bankroll?

[RickyG]

I've heard that the bankroll for omaha is much lower. The standard response for limit hold'em is 300 BB, what about for Omaha8 limit? What about pot limit?

[beset7]

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I've heard that the bankroll for omaha is much lower. The standard response for limit hold'em is 300 BB, what about for Omaha8 limit? What about pot limit?

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Bankroll requirements are actually a very complex topic and the correct bankroll for you could depend on numerous factors... such as your tolerance for variance, what limits you play in, whether you are a winning player (no BR is big enough for a losing player), etc. I have a "psychological" bankroll that is nearly twice what common wisdom would say I need.

However, IMHO, if you are a tight, aggressive Omaha8 player you should be able to do fine with 150xBB.

In PLO, the rule of thumb is 3000xBB, or 30 buyins to a 100xBB stack game. Believe me you'll need it. Personally, I won't move up limits or play in a pot-limit omaha game unless I have more like 40 or 50 buyins.

Beset7

[Bulbarainey]

So do you think 1000$ is enough for a 3/6 w/ kill for live bankroll? that seems to be the lowest we got around here, ive only played a little, but there seems to be a good amount of anything plays players, which so far seemed good to me.. also some of the rooms use only one blind, what kind of effect would this have on the game? thanks..

[B Mando]

1000$ is not enough for a 3-6 omaha8 kill game. You could blow that in one session if your not careful. When I play omaha8, I play 3-6 online without a kill and I have had some pretty big crazy swings. I think you would need around 3K if you are a tight solid player who has an advantage over the rest of the table.

[DasLeben]

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1000$ is not enough for a 3-6 omaha8 kill game. You could blow that in one session if your not careful. When I play omaha8, I play 3-6 online without a kill and I have had some pretty big crazy swings. I think you would need around 3K if you are a tight solid player who has an advantage over the rest of the table.

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$3k? That's 500xBB! Sorry, but I hardly agree with that recommendation. 150xBB should be fine if you're playing winning O/8.

[beset7]

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1000$ is not enough for a 3-6 omaha8 kill game. You could blow that in one session if your not careful. When I play omaha8, I play 3-6 online without a kill and I have had some pretty big crazy swings. I think you would need around 3K if you are a tight solid player who has an advantage over the rest of the table.

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No offense, but if you need a 3k bankroll to play 3/6 omaha8 and not go broke then you are not playing winning poker. If that's your psychological bankroll, that's fine... But I've never had a downswing playing against the average live mcgoos of more then 100xBB. In fact, it's rare for me to have swings in live Omaha8 game of over 50xBB. And for this to happen it necessarily entails a major bad beat. If your opponents are tight and tough, well then find another game.

Again, pot-limit play is a completely different story. I've gone down 1000xBB a couple of times playing pot-limit o8.

[Bahama Dave]

I would have to disagree with Beset about the 3000xBB bankroll for PLO 1000 max. I think that because of the style of game that is on party you can get by with a lower roll than 3000. Right now I've gtot a little over 2000xBB in my roll and I have no apprehensions about playing the 1000 max buy-in. So long as you're playing a smart brand of PLO/8 these games are beatable a huge portion of the time and so long as you are avoiding marginal situations and only getting involved in monsters when you're way on top with the high hand (you may be giving up some profit occasionally by not calling some hands but I think what you are giving up is more than made up for by the stakes) you can play with much less than 3000BB.

Usurperneo

[beset7]

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I would have to disagree with Beset about the 3000xBB bankroll for PLO 1000 max. I think that because of the style of game that is on party you can get by with a lower roll than 3000. Right now I've gtot a little over 2000xBB in my roll and I have no apprehensions about playing the 1000 max buy-in. So long as you're playing a smart brand of PLO/8 these games are beatable a huge portion of the time and so long as you are avoiding marginal situations and only getting involved in monsters when you're way on top with the high hand (you may be giving up some profit occasionally by not calling some hands but I think what you are giving up is more than made up for by the stakes) you can play with much less than 3000BB.

Usurperneo

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You may very well be right but I hope you don't find yourself on the wrong side of busted out. I've heard that one of the best plo8b players on the net went down twenty buyins (20K) this weekend at party. Because the players are so loose, if you play correctly anyway, there will be a lot of variance. But I'm not ruling out that with adjustments they could be played on 20 buyins. I just think it's risky.

[B Mando]

I dont play kill games, so I dont know how often the pot is actually killed BUT I was pretty much going off of a 6-12 scale. 3K = 250 BBs at 6-12. I thought your BR in kill games was to be determined by the size of the killed BB. 1K is only about 83BBs at the 6-12 level. I know I dont want an 83BB bankroll playing O8. An 83BB downswing is very possible. A 250BB downswing is much more unlikely. If I am playing a regular 3-6 game I still want at least a 2K BR though. IF you only started with a 1K bankroll and had a bad first week you would be on the edge of going bust, and obvouisly if you are setting aside a bankroll no one wants to go bust.

The pot is killed everytime someone scoops right? Does the hand have to be shown down in order for the pot to be scooped? I am clueless about kill games and dont really know if 1 of 10 hands would be played at 6-12 or 8 of 10 hands would be played at 6-12.

[GFunk911]

Every 2+2 poster eventually reaches a point where their brain explodes, usually when they read their Xth Bankroll thread. That point is now for me.

These bankroll requirements (300BB, etc) are for minimizing your chances of busting out, to the level of numerous standard deviations. This is very very important if poker is your job, and if you bust out your kids eat styrofoam. This is less important if you play poker for fun and you have a real job.

This doesn't mean that if you have 1k you are willing to spend on poker, you should play 1000PL. It does mean that, assuming you are playing for fun (and, of course, hopefully profit) and you will be able to replenish a roll in a reasonable amount of time, you can play higher than the "bankroll requirements" recommend, and run the risk of busting out.

This is especially true if you don't have the "bankroll" for a particularly good game (like, oh, I dunno, if you have a roll for 100PL, and then the site you play on hikes the limit 5x or 10x and the same idiot fish are now playing 1000PL ...... you know, hypothetically). Taking a shot at a game you aren't really rolled for is perfectly reasonable, as long as you can afford to replenish your roll and it won't kill you to go "poker-broke"

That is all. Time to pick my brain off the floor.

[beset7]

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Every 2+2 poster eventually reaches a point where their brain explodes, usually when they read their Xth Bankroll thread. That point is now for me.

These bankroll requirements (300BB, etc) are for minimizing your chances of busting out, to the level of numerous standard deviations. This is very very important if poker is your job, and if you bust out your kids eat styrofoam. This is less important if you play poker for fun and you have a real job.

This doesn't mean that if you have 1k you are willing to spend on poker, you should play 1000PL. It does mean that, assuming you are playing for fun (and, of course, hopefully profit) and you will be able to replenish a roll in a reasonable amount of time, you can play higher than the "bankroll requirements" recommend, and run the risk of busting out.

This is especially true if you don't have the "bankroll" for a particularly good game (like, oh, I dunno, if you have a roll for 100PL, and then the site you play on hikes the limit 5x or 10x and the same idiot fish are now playing 1000PL ...... you know, hypothetically). Taking a shot at a game you aren't really rolled for is perfectly reasonable, as long as you can afford to replenish your roll and it won't kill you to go "poker-broke"

That is all. Time to pick my brain off the floor.

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I hope your brain didn't get any salmonella or anything on it.

You are correct of course. "bankroll" requirements are largely an abstraction and a waste of time if you aren't a pro. I take a shot at bigger games all the time live; i have a good job and I can spend my money any damn way i want too.

But, if the theoretical premise is "what amount of money minimizes the risk of ruin to a nominal percent for a winning player playing X game at X limit" then there is something worth discussing.

[AKQJ10]

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1000$ is not enough for a 3-6 omaha8 kill game.

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$3k? That's 500xBB!

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Not for the kill hands!

[AKQJ10]

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I dont play kill games, so I dont know how often the pot is actually killed BUT I was pretty much going off of a 6-12 scale.

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I don't have a ton of experience with them, but from what I've seen kill games increase variance dramatically. It's not that that many pots are killed, only maybe 30% or less. It's that, on those kill pots, everyone wants to take a shot at them irrespective of their lousy hands.

This may be more of a concern for HE than for O8, but in my mind the kill inceases variance for both.

[DasLeben]

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1000$ is not enough for a 3-6 omaha8 kill game.

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$3k? That's 500xBB!

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Not for the kill hands!

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Granted, but this was the quote I was referring to:

"...I play 3-6 online without a kill and I have had some pretty big crazy swings. I think you would need around 3K if you are a tight solid player who has an advantage over the rest of the table."

[Klak]

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The pot is killed everytime someone scoops right? Does the hand have to be shown down in order for the pot to be scooped? I am clueless about kill games and dont really know if 1 of 10 hands would be played at 6-12 or 8 of 10 hands would be played at 6-12.

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yes, the kill is on whenever someone scoops a pot over a set amount. this applies when everyone folds too. in omaha, this pretty much means that if theres no low hand, the next pot will be killed. thats how they do where i play anyway. id say almost half the hands are kill pots in the game i play in. most O8 games with a kill are only a half kill so like a 4-8 would go to 6-12 when the kill is on.

[NJchick]

Minimum 300 BB

Maximum 400 BB

If you are playing with a Kill then you have to factor in more. Really depends on what type of player you are.