5/10 PL AJo hand.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

hi guys, i felt a little unsure about this one. should i have just been done on it on the flop? my original plan was to stop n go a non spade turn. when the turn gets checked through i think there's a decent chance my hand is best and is worth a showdown so i put out a little blocking bet, but he raises me again.

Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

MP2 ($1557.25)
CO ($1022)
Button ($375)
SB ($1294)
BB ($1018.5)
UTG ($918.5)
Hero ($990)
MP1 ($980)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. SB posts a blind of $5.
UTG calls $10, Hero calls $10, MP1 calls $10, MP2 calls $10, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($60) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $45</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $192</font>, MP2 calls $192, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, Hero calls $147.

Turn: ($636) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks.

River: ($636) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $200</font>, MP2 folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $836

[NegranuFan]

River: ($636) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $200</font>, MP2 folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $836

[/ QUOTE ]

Clarify please. Didn't you say he raised here? Who is mysterious second Hero?

[fsuplayer]

id fold the flop.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

whoops converter scrwed up. MP1 pushed. i folded.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
id fold the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't even have made it to the flop with AJo UTG+1

[AZK]

Check/call flop, helps keep the pot small and you can better evaluate on the turn. Assuming the turn is a brick, I bet out on the turn, just one of the new ways I'm playing shady hands...i.e. I've started playing defense with them rather than offense...mixed results...

[shant]

You cand find out Villain's thoughts in mach3's post in this forum.

[fsuplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
You cand find out Villain's thoughts in mach3's post in this forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

huh, would ya look at that. neato.

[turnipmonster]

usually the turn getting checked doesn't increase the chances your hand is best here.

[FoxwoodsFiend]

yep, fold the flop

[Paluka]

Is limping preflop here standard? Seems pointless to me to limp with AJ. Looking for implied odds with a hand that hates big pots?

[fsuplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
Is limping preflop here standard? Seems pointless to me to limp with AJ. Looking for implied odds with a hand that hates big pots?

[/ QUOTE ]

i am starting to question that hand as well as KQo in the first two positions. I have always called w/ them, but I never feel comfortable after the flop (in higher limits), and you surely cant call a raise.

seems like a win a small pot, lose a big one type thing.

thats twice ive agreed completely with you paluka, I thought you were a limit player? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Popinjay]

Definetly right (except your limp/big pot thing is contradictory, I think you meant multi-way pot), the only thing I can think that you would like is a JJx flop vs someone who limped a JTs or something. This isn't gonna happen enough to be profitable.

[turnipmonster]

fwiw I muck KQ/AJ if no one has called in EP, and openraise in LP

[fsuplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
fwiw I muck KQ/AJ if no one has called in EP, and openraise in LP

[/ QUOTE ]

good, just like I taught you. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

btw turnip, maybe we can exchange handles, to keep an eye out for eachother. gl to you bud.

[bigfishead]

Easy muck preflop. Screwed up on all streets. The reason why not to play crap like that in EP/utg.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
Easy muck preflop. Screwed up on all streets. The reason why not to play crap like that in EP/utg.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm sorry, but to say AJo is an "easy" muck preflop here is a little misleading. at worst its marginal one way or hte other, if it is -EV its not terribly so. (though if i butcher the hand postflop thats a different story /images/graemlins/crazy.gif)

[Jason Strasser]

You play limit. I had to coach a very good limit player once and teach him how to play nl sngs. The first adjustment was with AJ and KQ. They are not great no limit hands, but can be used very effectively at times.

Anyhow, a spot where AJ kinda sucks is on this board here. And as much as your flop play alarms me, the river is even more concerning. Lets break it down.

PF is ok. PF in NL is so rarely a problem area past the real basics.

The flop is going to be a fold a vast majority of the time, unless for some reason you believe your opponent has a FD. There are quite a few hands here you beat. The problem is that your opponent made a very nice sized raise here and calling this raise often means you will have to put in more money guessing if your hand is right. Your opponent likely doesnt have AQ here, but a hand like A7, K7, 77, or better is very feasable. I'd suspect AQ to be played more passively.

Anyhow, on the turn any hope that your hand is good is shot, unless you were up against a total bluff. So check check is good.

The river is horrible. Your opponent will probably have a hand that beats you like two-pair, or a flush. The check on the turn often means if he has aflush, its of the nut variety. You block(???) the river? Usually a blocking bet is designed to get to showdown cheap, but its used with a hand that you think most of the time is ahead of your opponent. What hand is your opponent going to call with here? Basically, only ones he can beat. He'll raise your blocking bet with hands that beat you, and with bluffs. Or, he may fold a failed bluff. Thus, check/call is far superior to betting and folding to a raise and its not close.

-Jason

[bigfishead]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Easy muck preflop. Screwed up on all streets. The reason why not to play crap like that in EP/utg.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm sorry, but to say AJo is an "easy" muck preflop here is a little misleading. at worst its marginal one way or hte other, if it is -EV its not terribly so. (though if i butcher the hand postflop thats a different story /images/graemlins/crazy.gif)

[/ QUOTE ]

You'll get yourself broke playin that crap utg in any NL game with decent players. Limit is a somewhat different story...yet I will play it with the right lineups utg. But I avg seeing the flop with it utg less than 33% of the time.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Easy muck preflop. Screwed up on all streets. The reason why not to play crap like that in EP/utg.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm sorry, but to say AJo is an "easy" muck preflop here is a little misleading. at worst its marginal one way or hte other, if it is -EV its not terribly so. (though if i butcher the hand postflop thats a different story /images/graemlins/crazy.gif)

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude even I know to muck this preflop in a reasonably deep stacked no limit game.

[turnipmonster]

good post jason. the other thing to note is how often you'll get trapped here, i.e. you fire the flop, turn and river and get called down by AQ/AK. you pretty much lose the max in this scenario by assuming your opponent is a fish. not always such a great assumption in NL.

--turnipmonster