Interesting hand

[Absolution]

This is your typical low-buy. UTG+1 is your typical low-buy player. He's loose and has bluffed in the past. I converted it by hand since I can't get UB tournament hands to convert.

SB is at seat 0 with 17350.
BB is at seat 1 with 6810.
UTG is at seat 2 with 29560.
UTG+1 is at seat 3 with 27615.
Absolution is at seat 9 with 27120. BUTTON

SB posts the small blind of 300.
BB posts the big blind of 600.

Absolution: Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif

Pre-flop:

UTG calls. UTG+1 calls. Absolution calls. SB calls.
BB checks.

I just called here with KQo. I like calling instead of raising because of the two EP limpers and the fact that I had the button. Suited I may raise.

Flop (board: T/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif):

SB checks. BB checks. UTG checks.
UTG+1 bets 600. Absolution raises to 2000.
SB folds. BB folds. UTG calls.
UTG+1 re-raises to 11750. Absolution calls. UTG
folds.

Well, lots of weakness and I have a very strong hand so I raise it up to maybe take it down there, but maybe isolate the minraiser and push him out on the turn. I should have raised more. Anyway, he minraise + reraises me. That makes me suspicious. He has a wide range here I think given his propensity to bluff. He could see my less than pot bet on the button as a steal attempt. I fear 22 the most right now, but a bluff or draw are very possible so I call.

Turn (board: T/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif):

UTG+1 goes all-in for 15190. Absolution goes all-in
for 14695. UTG+1 is returned 495 (uncalled).

The 2 was a very nice card for me considering I missed. He quickly puts in the rest, but this seems like a simple pot odds call for me. Obviously I should have raised more on the flop. Maybe a slightly more than pot sized bet? Any other way I should play this?

[IMRichB]

I like your raise on the flop, but I don't like your call of UTG+1's reraise. You're calling 10,000 of your chips into a pot of 19,000 (I think) so you're not even getting 2-1 odds. You have many outs, but not many of them are clean, especially against two players (UTG was still in the hand at this point).

I think this is an easy fold.

Rich

[Noel Montgomery]

I don't like the raise on the flop.

You have a draw, and you're being given odds to call. While UTG+1 may have a flush draw, I would be leery of the 10 and the J. I've always said that limping reeks of Jacks and Queens and don't make too many moves in this situation...especially against someone who has you covered.

I would call the flop and see if he still gave me odds on the turn.

[IMRichB]

I like the flop raise because:
1) You have 3 players left to act after you. By just calling you're encouraging one of them to make a move.
2) It will give you information on where you stand.
3) In most cases it will allow you to see the river for free if needed.

Rich

[billyjex]

I lay this down to his flop reraise. Too much of your stack.

I would just call the flop here and get a cheap look at the turn. Your raise is not a bad play, you can sometimes buy the pot right there, or get a free card and see two cards.

[Roman]

raising flop is fine, but no way you have odds to call his reraise. I lay this down.

[Noel Montgomery]

I'm not sure you need the information to see where you stand. I can almost guarantee that you're behind here.

The 3 players left to act after you is an argument for calling. Isn't it? If one of them has good cards, they're going to reraise you.

[Absolution]

I think raising is probably best here given that UTG+1 likes to make moves, but I didn't raise it enough. The call was weak too. I should have just pushed in if I liked the call so much since, as we see on the turn, I have to call anyway. The call was more of an instinct move I guess (not saying that's a proper justification). I felt they were weak and I knew this guy was an unthinking LAG, so I went with it.

Since everybody seems to be in agreement that I messed up here, I might as well make with the results:

UGT+1 shows 96o, the river does not improve either of us and MHIG. The results got me thinking I was a genius here, but I suspected otherwise and that's why I posted. Thanks.

[Absolution]

Ya the odds aren't there unless I can be very sure he's on a draw, top pair or a bluff (which is what I put him on during the hand, but I don't think I could be sure enough). If he was all in the call would be easier than easy.

[IMRichB]

[ QUOTE ]
If he was all in the call would be easier than easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure I understand this logic. If he was all in, the pot size would be around 33K and you would be required to call 24K, right? That doesn't seem like you have any better odds than in the other situation, but maybe I'm missing something?

[Absolution]

Sorry, I was speaking hypothetically. If his 11k raise put him all in I could make the call given the range I had him on (higher percentage of bluffs, top pair, draws). The only reason the call might be bad is because I have to call off the rest on the turn regardless. If I can see both cards I don't think I'm that much of an underdog. Even if he shows JT I'm still better than 2-1.

[Kronon]

I dont like your raise after flop. What are you trying to accomplish with that? With a drawing hand, you should be happy to smooth call and get many players into the pot.

Here is how I would play it:
1. Call after flop
2. Check/call after turn, unless a big raise which I would fold to (assuming I miss my draw).
3. Check/fold on river unless I make my straight, or a K hits.

No offense, but I dont agree with the way you played this pot. And after the turn, how can you say you have a very strong hand. Any ace, any pp, AJ, AT, KJ, KT, QJ and many more hands are favourites here (some are big favourites).

[Kronon]

[ QUOTE ]
Since everybody seems to be in agreement that I messed up here, I might as well make with the results:

UGT+1 shows 96o, the river does not improve either of us and MHIG. The results got me thinking I was a genius here, but I suspected otherwise and that's why I posted. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]
UTG+1 had to be on drugs or something. You sometimes see this kind of play on the 6$ at PP, but even there its not very common.

I would say you played this pot badly but got lucky. Its pot like this one thats are VERY dangerous to try and draw experience from.

[suited_ace]

That too weak. If that's your plan for the hand, then you're better off folding to the first flop bet.

[yecul]

I like the flop raise though maybe larger as you mentioned. However, facing that large of a reraise with K high, I would fold.

[EnderW27]

I like the flop raise but I also think you need to dump it to his reraise. Under normal circumstances, his reraise says he has your hand beat and beat hard. With just an open ender and a backdoor potential, it's not hard to imagine a range of hands where you don't have the odds to call for the rest of your stack. As the turn showed (and you knew already calling on the flop) you would absolutely be playing for the rest of your stack.


That said, I agree with another poster that your opponent must have been on some serious drugs to try this move. I'm glad he got called on his shenannigans.