Should we even worry about poker bots online?

[Hellmouth]

To me its an interesting issue. So far I feel that they don't change the equation any differently than knowing that there are good players online. I am no less likely to cold call a raise from a bot than I am to cold call a raise period. I am also going to look at a three bet very carefully no matter who the player is. As long as bots don't soak up all of the $$$ before I can get to it then who cares?

Greg

[daveymck]

If bots become widespread and everyone knows it then its game over for online poker.

As I said in another thread I am sure there are bots out there, we have known of some here, one was commercially released.

The sites have to ensure that if bots are created that they cannot operate ie stay one step ahead.

[Hellmouth]

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If bots become widespread and everyone knows it then its game over for online poker.


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If that happens then I guess its back to the casino's /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I guess I was just thinking in terms of the current situation where they may be out there but are not a huge % of the players.

Greg

[groo]

Imo, the biggest reason to fear bots, is that they bring into question the integrity of the game. When it becomes known that this integrity has been compromised, the fish quit coming out to play. When the fish quit joining in their current droves, the rooms dry up and the golden goose dies.

[daveymck]

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I guess I was just thinking in terms of the current situation where they may be out there but are not a huge % of the players.

Greg

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I would imagine it probably isnt even 1% of current players, but there are bound to be some and there are bound to be some in development, hopefully the rooms can stay one step ahead.

[benfranklin]

I don't have enough information to make a judgement yet. My immediate reaction to bots is, so what? A bot is a program that makes decisions according to a set of rules. To this extent, it is better than a human attempting to follow the same set of rules, because the bot doesn't go on tilt, doesn't forget, doesn't rationalize exceptions to the rules, and basically, doesn't think. And we all know what happens to us when we try to think /images/graemlins/blush.gif

There are several potential downsides to bots. One is that a bot cannot make situation adjustments. This makes it less effective at higher levels. Another is that a bot is no better than the rules that are programmed into it. Making the rules is a lot harder than making the bot. Rules can't deal with the ultimate poker truism: "It depends."

All of the threads I have seen here so far assume that there are bots playing now, and that these bots are kicking butt at the tables. I haven't seen any evidence for either. And like the eternal battle between cops with radar and speeders with radar detectors, poker sites will be bringing more and more new technology to bear against bots, collusion, etc.

[richrf]

Playing against the bot that deals and shows the cards, or the bot that plays the cards, it is all the same to me. Figuring out how the bot plays. Sort of like computer chess.

[Girchuck]

I think, that the full bot capability is not required for robots to be competitive.
All one has to do is write a kind of Wilson's "advisor" for a pokersite which makes winning plays more often than not, and then hire some third world tech support fodder to push the buttons and maintain chat according to some scenario, like telemarketer's only simplier. This kind of bot is not prone to detection, because it is much less suspicious.
If the "advisor" can beat the medium limits, the salary of button pushers will be insignificant expense.

[spentrent]

The online poker rooms can never quell our concerns about bots like saabpo (http://www.saabpo.com) BUT they can promise us that they will try to stay ahead of the game by monitoring possible large scale offenders.

Like winholdem...

Now, any programmer with desire and poker sense can hack out a unique bot, but if sites like Party can stay on top of the mass-distributed bots then I don't think there's any cause for alarm

I was browsing the winholdem and winPP forums yesterday. If you want to feel a little paranoid, check those out.

[Matty]

Please stop pimping your site.

[cyorg]

i think the bots will only be effective on micro/low limit tables. a bot will have no clue if someone is bluffing or drawing, they just play there own cards. i may be wrong but thats the way i understand them to be.

[nnoobi]

Bots scare away the fish.

Because the poker application is installed on the client PC (and has full administrator priviledges on that PC), when push comes to shove, 'Bot Detection and 'Bot Avoidance will be too difficult to overcome.

If the Poker sites were very serious about Bot detection and avoidance, the only way a computer could play would be to have someone data enter in a hand as it is being played into a separate computer, have that computer make a decision, and then click the correct button.

Currently, Party does many things that are 'bot friendly. One day that will probably change.


rabbit

[Nick-Zack]

The big problem is going to come several generations of bot from now. When some genius designs a bot that integrates Poker Tracker stats into its decision process then we have a problem.

[Cheeseweasel]

I think that you're looking at the situation from the proper perspective.

I've authored a bot program which I've tested by 4-tabling limit holdem for 100,000 continuous hands. Without rakeback, it showed a small profit.

I can't speak for other bot handlers, but my intention is not to reverse engineer Poki, feed him with Pokertracker data and turn him loose on the online poker community (which, by the way, would not be difficult to do). I just want to have one of my bots playing at every low limit table on the internet, playing breakeven poker just for rakeback.

Right now I'm directing my energies towards a major casino hack. In the past I've built, programmed, and used concealable blackjack and roulette prediction computers. This is a project that will far eclipse those in scope. It will be the best hack that you've never heard of.

After that (in five to eight months) I'll be concentrating my energy on developing my next generation rakebot. It will be impossible to detect robotic activity. As a matter of fact, after alpha and beta testing, you are all invited to the public unveiling. I'll give you plenty of time to drop your snitch kites to the appropriate online poker room where it will be tested so that they can bring the full force of their mighty robotic detection measures to bear upon this grave problem.

From my warped point of view, I think that bludgeoning the tables for 2BB/hr. * 16 tables * n thousand 2+2'ers has a much more deletrious effect on the fish population than I will have 300-tabling for rakeback. But what do I know? Flame away!