AK tough turn decision

[Mike Gallo]

I had the following hand Sunday afternoon at a must move $10-$20 game at the Taj. The table had six players and I had some soft competition.

I had AK off suit in the big blind. The cutoff open raised. This player frequently raised here with any two cards, and would give up his bluff if he received any type of resistance. The button calls and I three bet. Both players call.

Flop A 8 3 raindbow

I bet, cutoff folds, button raises, I call. I didnt reraise because I wanted to check raise the turn.

Turn A 8 3 A

I check, button bets, I check raise and the button reraises.

Whats your play? /forums/images/icons/confused.gif

[Mike Gallo]

I called the raise. A queen fell on the end. I checked and my opponent turned over A8 for a turned boat. He missed a bet on the river, however I think I should have given him credit for at least a pair of 8's if not A8.

I welcome any comments.

Thanks

Michael

[drewjustdrew]

I was thinking he had a pair of 8s, but either way, I would have called him down. Not knowing how he plays, he could have any ace. Yes, he missed a bet. I would pay to see your AQ if I was in his position (but I would have folded his hand preflop)

I think it was very easy for him to put you an AK here. You made it 3 bets pre-flop. He should be guessing, big pair or big slick. I know it is often said in this forum but were you considering what hand he put you on?

[Pocket Nines]

Drew - what if the button thought the cutoff just sucked, and would raise with lots of crapola? I considered three-betting pre-flop, frankly.

As for the missed river bet, all things being equal I should have probably bet the river. However, I put MG on AK or AQ (suited or not). I did not put him on AJ. So, if it was AQ, I am going to get checkraised and probably have to make a crying call. I am probably going to get called with AK the vast majority of the time, but an observant opponent would probably (correctly) figure me for the boat when I three bet the turn with a paired board, and might even lay it down. There is something in the Taj culture where the players take pride in big laydowns (as contrasted with California). That same opponent would probably not bet out with AQ, figuring me for a sure river bet.

I dunno, I think I made a (small) mistake, but it's a somewhat close call.

99

[Pocket Nines]

Here's the thing, the cutoff was plainly a poor player. His open raise meant little. Do you think it was an accident I was on his immediate left?

I was aware that I wasn't the only one who saw this. Thus, when the 3-bet comes from the blinds that does not automatically mean to me "this must be AA, KK, AKs, AKo, QQ." It meant, "hey, I know what you're doing, Mr. Button, and I think I have the best hand right now." Obviously I am certain there's a big Ace by the turn. Is it AK or AQ (maybe suited)? In the situation we are describing, if MG and I are reversed, you bet I am coming out with 3-bets with AQ if I believe MG understands how poor the cutoff is.

In retrospect, I missed a bet, which is what I said out loud at the end at the table. But I don't think the mistake was gigantic. I think it was little in that same situation in the long run. A bigger mistake might have been not three-betting this poor player to try to get heads up (though I didn't want to do that too much to make it too obvious).

Comments?

[Mike Gallo]

Pocket 9's,

I agree with how you played the hand. "Jim" raised from that spot first in almost every time. He also would let go of many hands after he open raised. I could have three bet with any pocket pair for all you knew. I didnt show down many of my hands.The hands I did show down were premium hands.

Once Jim called the raise, now you almost have to see the flop. Once you flopped top two, you cant go anywhere. You turned a boat and the hand played it self.

I put you on pocket 8's so I had to see the river. Even if you do bet the river, I would have folded, I knew you had me beat, especially since you reraised my check raise.

Nice hand. See you again.

Michael

[Dynasty]

Pocket 9's (button) pre-flop call is terrible. A8o is a clear 3-betting hand against a player who is raising with trash.

[Pocket Nines]

Dynasty - if I remember right, it was Ac8c, so I thought "call, and it's not terrible if one or both blinds come along." The table orientation at that time was such that at least 50% of the time both blinds would fold once I called the raise. 3-betting would (though not in this particular case) have generally gotten heads up, but I didn't want to abuse the privilege too often. A8o I definitely would have 3-bet, because that hand hates multiway.

[Ed Miller]

You have a strong hand pre-flop... why do you want to give the blinds correct odds to call and draw out on you? Their money is already in the pot...

[drewjustdrew]

I think you took my comment the wrong way. I had no problem with the way you played the hand. 6 handed, I would have reraised as you suggest. I was disagreeing with the way the button played preflop. A8 six handed is a reraise or fold hand and most definitely not a call two bets cold hand.

[Pocket Nines]

Drew - I WAS the button in this hand, I am a different guy than the one who started the post.

If MG is right, and it was six-handed, then I have absolutely no excuse for not making it three bets, especially against the raiser. Six-handed, I would not have been so sensitive to being seen as always three-betting this one guy. I honestly don't remember if there were six players or not at this point.

If it were a full table, I assure you, I was thinking I would call with A8s and then raise the guy when he autobet the flop, almost no matter what came. The reason I was thinking this way is:

The blinds might or might not come along, but if they did they would probably check to the pre-flop raiser who would autobet, and I would almost certainly autoraise. That puts exactly the amount of pressure on the blinds (if they came along at all) to help me define their hands in case they call my raise cold (or reraise). Some may argue why not 3-bet and get them out in the first place, take their $15 as dead money and be done with it. But in my recent experience at the Taj, I might be better off having them call and taking the $25 or $40 dead money when my flop raise forces them out. It just instinctually felt like the way to go.

And again, if it was six-handed, cancel all this, and I am a big dope for not 3-betting, especially because I would do that unhesitatingly with that hand in that situation.

Sorry for the confusion

99

[jen]

I think the real question here is -- why is your handle 99 rather than AA, KK...? /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

I hope East Coast poker is treating you well!

[Mike Gallo]

99,

We did have six players at the time. And four of then played poorly