full pay video poker

[Aicirt]

I was looking on wizardofodds.com and have been practicing up my deuces wild video poker strategy as the site says that full pay macines are positive EV. So I got to the point where I would make the correct play almost every time and then went to some local casinos to play, and found out that none of the local casinos have full pay machines. Does Vegas have full pay machines? How rare are these?

Aicirt

[KingMedicine]

[ QUOTE ]
I was looking on wizardofodds.com and have been practicing up my deuces wild video poker strategy as the site says that full pay macines are positive EV. So I got to the point where I would make the correct play almost every time and then went to some local casinos to play, and found out that none of the local casinos have full pay machines. Does Vegas have full pay machines? How rare are these?

Aicirt

[/ QUOTE ]

first off, and it sounds like you know this already, there are several different versions of VP and several different pay schedules for each. yes, certain dueces versions pay out over 100% if played perfectly. however, even very very minor errors can drop the game to EV-. go to www.bobdancer.com (http://www.bobdancer.com) (the guy has devoted his life to VP and is completely accurate on pretty much every aspect of the game) - from that site you can buy a computer program called winpoker that allows you to set pay schedules for every version of VP and will correct when you make mistakes so that after several thousand hands you can get perfect strategy down.

now, to answer your questions, yes, there are full pay dueces in vegas that pay over 100%. however, they only offer them up to 25 cents (this is because when they used to offer dollars, so many pros would play them, but at the 25 cent level, the small percent advantage that the player has does not make it worthwile for many pros to play). i do not believe anywhere on the strip has them. when i was there last i believe the station casinos had them, but that was a while ago.

another thing to consider is this: you can fairily easily find other versions of VP full pay that pay within 1/2% under 100% that can be profitable with the right slot club deal. this is how most VP pros make money. say you get a version of VP that pays at 99.54% and you get a slot club deal that pays nearly 1% cash back (this is in addition oftentimes to room/food comps) (also, a lot casinos run promotions like double point days, etc)...that brings you up to 100.54%. .54% doesnt sound like much, but if you play $1 machines or $5 machines, it adds up incredibly fast. of course, you need to consider bankroll issues when playing on the higher dollar machines.

VP is the only casino i ever play because i can play a couple versions of the game 100% computer perfect which with decent slot club deals puts me at a little over 100% return. for a good while i made my living playing VP.

if you have any questions, please feel free to post them or PM me.

[mosuavea]

I have a question. Seeing is there are many different versions of the games, is there a site online where one can find what Vegas casinos offer what games?

[KingMedicine]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a question. Seeing is there are many different versions of the games, is there a site online where one can find what Vegas casinos offer what games?

[/ QUOTE ]

not that i know of. it would be an invaluable resourse if you can locate such a list. does anyone know a site that updates this sort of info?
one thing is that casinos very often will change the pay schedules on machines without any notice, so be sure to ALWAYS confirm youre playing a full pay machine.

[Cheeseweasel]

I think that Green Valley Ranch has FPDW in both $.25 and $.50.

[playersare]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/

[Joe_d72]

fiesta, sams town, main street station, texas station all have full pay VP at 25 cents i know people that make some money playing that.

[Iceman]

If you play .25 full pay deuces, 5 coins, at video game speed (say 800 hands per hour), and you never make a mistake, that's a .75% profit on $1000 in action, or $7.50. You aren't going to make more than minimum wage on video poker without a cash back deal.

[RocketManJames]

Nice link to his site, with articles... This guy is nuts.

In one of his articles, he describes how to play an unsuited Ace/Jack in 9-5 Super Double Bonus (I don't play VP, so I have no idea what this is). But, anyway, here's his end of article quiz:

What do you hold in each of the following?

Q1. Ah Js 9h 6c 3d
Q2. As Jd Tc 7c 4d
Q3. Ad Jc Td 6s 3h
Q4. Ac Jh Td 6s 2s
Q5. Ah Js Td 5d 3s
Q6. As Jd Td 7h 3d
Q7. Ad Jc Tc 8d 4c
Q8. Ac Jh Th 9s 2s
Q9: As Jd Td 9c 6d

Answers in white below:

<font color="white">
A1. AJ
A2. A
A3. J
A4. J
A5. AJ
A6. JT
A7. AJ
A8. JT
A9: A</font>

Seriously, nuts.

-RMJ

[Joe_d72]

Thats what you have to know to make money at it in the long term

[RocketManJames]

Ya, I have no doubt you need to know the most intricate details of proper play... but seriously. It's a lot easier to make more money at mid-limit poker. I mean, if you can memorize all those rules for VP, you could surely beat mid-limit poker.

-RMJ

[Terry]

[ QUOTE ]
I mean, if you can memorize all those rules for VP, you could surely beat mid-limit poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah. You can learn to play a winning strategy for Deuces Wild in about 15 minutes -- it can be written on a match pack. It takes maybe 10 hours of practice on the computer to play at a nearly perfect professional level.

With the books and software (Bob Dancer is the man) available today, the whole trick to video poker is putting in the legwork to find the good opportunities.

Sure, the $7.50 / hour you make playing quarter Deuces at .76% is chicken feed. But find a place giving .5% cash back and play there on triple points days to make it 1.5% in addition to the .76%... and they might just feed you and comp you a room ... all of a sudden it doesn't look half bad ... and that's only quarters.

[BradleyT]

When I was in Vegas last year, The Plaza downtown had a 10/7 double bonus machine which pays 100.1725%. It was on a mult-game multi-denomination machine and the 10/7 only appeared on $.25 and higher. The machine was in a bank of similar looking machines but none of the other ones had the 10/7 payout so you sometimes really have to look to find a good machine.