Fourth place trauma

[jenium]

I think i misplayed the following hand...I think my opponent interpreted my raise after the flop as a routine attempt to steal the pot, but in retrospect i think the pot size and my middle pair with A kicker, combined with the possibility that he was just bluffing means maybe i should have called. I was too scared, perhaps, to come in fourth. (which i did, in the end.) All opinions welcome.
***** Hand History for Game 1671560687 *****
200/400 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 10023991) - Wed Mar 02 01:12:50 EST 2005
Table Table 14975 (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 2: jenium (2905)
Seat 3: chief937 (1475)
Seat 6: matttheman32 (1110)
Seat 10: Mastiff69 (2510)
matttheman32 posts small blind (100)
Mastiff69 posts big blind (200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jenium [ As, 9c ]
jenium raises (500) to 500
chief937 folds.
matttheman32 folds.
Mastiff69 calls (300)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Jc, 9d, 5s ]
Mastiff69 checks.
jenium bets (600)
Mastiff69 raises (1200) to 1200
jenium folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: 2900
Board: [ Jc 9d 5s ]
jenium balance 1805, lost 1100 (folded)
chief937 balance 1475, didn't bet (folded)
matttheman32 balance 1010, lost 100 (folded)
Mastiff69 balance 3710, bet 1700, collected 2900, net +1200

[curtains]

I think you are losing. It would take balls of steel to checkraise the chipleader there without being able to beat A9.

[jenium]

Should I have bet fewer chips after he checked? Like 400 or 500?

[curtains]

If you think he will react the same to 400 as he would to 600 then yes....sometimes tough to tell if this will be the case. If you think someone is scared of bubbling thenyou can usually get away with smaller bets.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]

If you think he will react the same to 400 as he would to 600 then yes....sometimes tough to tell if this will be the case. If you think someone is scared of bubbling thenyou can usually get away with smaller bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm....I hate to interrupt but ......

Didn't you say you watched all of her hands, curtains?

Didn't she actually play this hand?

Haven't you already gone over this with her?!?!?

Yugoslav
(who will now try to post something slightly helpful)

[curtains]

I review all her hand histories...this obviously happened tonight.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]

If you think he will react the same to 400 as he would to 600 then yes....sometimes tough to tell if this will be the case. If you think someone is scared of bubbling thenyou can usually get away with smaller bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is good advice. You would be better served overall however being more careful with PF raising when the other big stack at the table is in the BB. By folding PF here, you give the smaller stacks an opportunity to make a mistake, and A9o can;t withstand too much heat, as you found.

[curtains]

btw I meant that I see her hand histories, usually 12 hours to 24 hours after the tournament is played.

[The Yugoslavian]

Preflop
I'm not sure I like a min type raise here. Are you folding to the small stack? The middle stack? or just the bigger middle stack? I like going allin here best followed by folding, raising what you did, and calling.

Flop:
Okay, well this is certainly good for you but not amazingly so. If you want any FE you should probably be stuffing this pot or check/stuffing over a weak river bet. Frankly, I don't necessarily mind checking behind here either and see how he plays the turn. Going allin on this flop is not a bad idea if you don't want to check. He has plenty of chips to still fold and you could have him outkicked if he has second pair be way ahead of his 5.

Turn: Oh wait, there was no turn. Well, I'll just add that I like your fold though to his raise on the flop. It's not a matter of balls of steel or not, it's a matter of having a good stack to still play the bubble well instead of playing a spot where it looks like you're probably behind.

Yugoslav

[curtains]

Yeah sometimes you get into a situation where your hand value doesn't matter so much. What I mean is that it doesn't matter if you have A9 or 32o, because you can't play the hand if someone reraises you. Obviously you will call 500 more if the shortstack reraises, but if the other guys reraise it's just annoying, and your A9o may as well be 73o.

It's of course nice to have something reasonable just in case the BB calls you preflop, so you have a chance to hit a good flop. This doesn't mean that I wouldn't raise A9o here, but it sometimes doesn't mean that much that its a good hand.

In situations like this, it's sometimes more important what your chances are of stealing the blinds as opposed to the actual value of your hand.

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]

Yeah sometimes you get into a situation where your hand value doesn't matter so much. What I mean is that it doesn't matter if you have A9 or 32o, because you can't play the hand if someone reraises you. Obviously you will call 500 more if the shortstack reraises, but if the other guys reraise it's just annoying, and your A9o may as well be 73o.

It's of course nice to have something reasonable just in case the BB calls you preflop, so you have a chance to hit a good flop. This doesn't mean that I wouldn't raise A9o here, but it sometimes doesn't mean that much that its a good hand.

In situations like this, it's sometimes more important what your chances are of stealing the blinds as opposed to the actual value of your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice post, curtains.

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop
I like going allin here best...


[/ QUOTE ]

in the CO for up to 13xBB?

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop
I like going allin here best...


[/ QUOTE ]

in the CO for up to 13xBB?

[/ QUOTE ]


Good catch. At some point during my thinking I thought the blinds were 200/400 rather than the stakes or whatever (of course, that 500 bet doesn't make much sense, doees it now??).

My new order is: folding, going allin, min-type raising, and calling.

Yugoslav
(Ugh...I need sleep)

[ReDeYES88]

[ QUOTE ]

This is good advice. You would be better served overall however being more careful with PF raising when the other big stack at the table is in the BB. By folding PF here, you give the smaller stacks an opportunity to make a mistake, and A9o can;t withstand too much heat, as you found.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. At the 100/200 blind level, I'm feeling pretty comfortable with t2900. No need to even be in the hand.

Jenium, welcome to the forum. One bit of advice: the hand converter makes your posts look pretty (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi), and makes things a bit easier for us, too. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[rachelwxm]

I fold PF but on that flop I like check behind better. I would like to bet if flop completely miss me since if I get cr it's a clear fold. In your situation, you have MPTK, some more aggressive player might cr u with MP, but on this bubble situation facing a bigger stack, I give him more credit for his holding at least TP. And you certainly don't want to double the second stack up facing elimination yourself.