why do people deride those 11.5 g clay "dice" chips?

[Rhone]

I've seen several posts where people are almost apologetic for having these chips...As someone who's completely new to playing live, I'm wondering what the big deal is? is it just a snob thing to have "special" chips, or are there legit reasons why these are no good?

[SamIAm]

I agree: They're dramatically better than those cheap interlocking chips. They're colorful and cheap, and both those are good adjectives.

On the other hand, they're pretty slippery; they're hard to stack well. When they're in your hand they feel like plastic and when they hit the table they sound like metal.

If you're spending the whole night holding chips (I leave my CARDS on the table. /images/graemlins/smile.gif ) it's nice to hold nicer chips.
-Sam

[PinataUT]

Order a stack of Paulsons, a stack of TR King, a stack of thepokerchipcompany.com 1006, a stack of Nexgens, a stack of $5 Egyptians from holdempokerchips.com and standard dice chips from 5Star.

Things I look for: aesthetics, feel, sound. I'm less price sensitive than some and way more price sensitive than some on these boards.

Think car: what's the big deal with a car anyhow?

My tastes changed with age, income and experience. From 440 New Yorker to sport ute to bigger sport ute and a sports sedan. I miss that old '72 New Yorker but not the clunkers in between. They all took me from point A to point B in varying degrees of style, comfort and passenger capacity...

[msb]

Somtimes, I think some people here don't even play poker... they just collect chips. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

But, having played with the dice chips for a while, I can say that while they play just fine and are tons better than those plastic chips... I'm ready to move up.

And for perspective... when I bought the dice chips and introduced them to our regular game, everyone was blown away... they loved them.

At the time I bought mine, they were the best ones for the money I wanted to spend on chips... so that's what I went with. But now, you have lots of choices at that price level, and if you're just starting and have been using the plastic ones, you can't really go wrong with any of the chips at that price level.

You'll hear lots of reasons why people don't like them, including the "sound" when they hit the pot and the fact that they are too slippery to stack very high. I enjoyed mine, but I'm ready for something a little more like the real casino chips and that are more unique.

[toots]

Guilty as charged.

But what's your point?

[TenPercenter]

[ QUOTE ]
I've seen several posts where people are almost apologetic for having these chips...As someone who's completely new to playing live, I'm wondering what the big deal is? is it just a snob thing to have "special" chips, or are there legit reasons why these are no good?

[/ QUOTE ]

There's nothing at all wrong with owning them. They are very affordable, and they do the job that the buyer buys them for. And considereing the price level, most are "high quality" for that level.

And you're right about the "snob" part. Once a person is "in the know" regarding chips, it's just so AGGRAVATING when you run into a dice chip owner that thinks they are the best poker chip made. And they REALLY think it! The only reason they think so is that the auction page said so, or the web page, or the Walmart placard, or whatever. Almost everywhere you see them, they are touted as "casino quality (lie)", "clay (lie)", "clay composite (most likely lie)", etc. They have this notion that "11.5g" is some "official" weight put out by the Nevada Gaming Commission or something.

One of my best friends said to me the first time he hefted one of my Egyptians. "Are these the full eleven and a half grams?" He is a proud dice chip owner, hotstamped and everything. Carries those chips everywhere he goes. Trys to bring them into every game, to do the other guy a "favor" by letting him use the Official Casino Dice chips.

Ten

[msb]

[ QUOTE ]
Guilty as charged.

But what's your point?

[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure what you mean, but I guess I was trying to point out that some folks, in a poker forum seem to be more obsessed with the type of chips they use than poker.

Sorry if I offended you.

[toots]

You didn't offend me at all.

I am obsessed with chips. Half the reason I play poker is to play with the chips. Really.

The dice chips suck. I have a set of them. They suck most vociferously.

I like the chips.

No offense taken at all, but what was your point again?

[msb]

[ QUOTE ]
No offense taken at all, but what was your point again?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think I have the ability to explain it to your satsfaction, so I won't try.

Enjoy your chips.

[Accident]

All the expensive chipcos/paulsons I have have increased in value or held at what I paid originally. I get more people in my home game with nicer cards/chips/tables to play with. I'm half way to paying for my 4000+ chip collection with my winnings. I am a chip snob in that I hate playing with crappy chips. My chips are nicer than the $1 chips at the Imperial Palace poker room. Don't care for playing there that much because of it. I think its the whole experience which includes the table, chips, cards and people, etc. It's just a natural progression from pennies. I moved up from pennies to quarters to cheap plastic chips, to better plastic, to paulsons/chipcos. I may not play at the $100/200 HE tables, but I have the same damn chips and my friends love to pay for them every week!
Accident /images/graemlins/club.gif

[lighterjobs]

[ QUOTE ]
Somtimes, I think some people here don't even play poker... they just collect chips. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

some people like to talk about how to bet with a small pair on 4th street and some people like to talk about how 11.5 gram chips aren't "official" casino weight.

i have the "crappy dice chips" but i'm not ashamed. i would have rather spent my money on a nice casino style table than casino chips. but the dice chips definately get the job done. nothing wrong with them.

[dakine]

MSB, That's cool. If you can afford to step up-go for it. We still use the dice chips and it works for us.

[dakine]

[ QUOTE ]
You didn't offend me at all.

I am obsessed with chips. Half the reason I play poker is to play with the chips. Really.

The dice chips suck. I have a set of them. They suck most vociferously.

I like the chips.

No offense taken at all, but what was your point again? [/quote

You wanna get rid of your Dice chips? send them to me. I'll take them off you hands. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[dakine]

Quote: I'm half way to paying for my 4000+ chip collection with my winnings. I am a chip snob in that I hate playing with crappy chips. EO Quote

Amazing!! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[grandgnu]

I too am a dice chip owner (notice I didn't say a "proud" one)

The dice chips are 14 cents apiece, while the real chips usually run 95 cents or more per chip. Since I have a set of 1,500 total chips, it was much better on my budget to go the cheaper route.

I have custom labels on my chips as well, which saved me some money vs. hot-stamping them.

I would LOVE to get custom clays (not a big fan of ceramics) with the logo from my home game on them. But I'll need to win a lot of money to accomplish that.

Thus far I'm up $265 this year (only hold a couple of tourneys per month) and that doesn't even cover the custom-built poker table I got (well-crafted, seats ten, racetrack style with cup holders)

I'd rather have a nice playing surface and sacrifice the chips a bit.

So far I've tried out samples of the following chips:

Chipco Crystal Oysters (hated them)

TR Kings (didn't much care for them either)

Modern Clays from buypokerchips.com (love the feel of them, but hate the insert graphics, I'd want something more custom)

[Lottery Larry]

Other than the fact that they don't feel right and are hard to keep in stacks... maybe no reason.

[Rhone]

[ QUOTE ]
Other than the fact that they don't feel right and are hard to keep in stacks... maybe no reason.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is it about the better quality chips that "feels" better? just curious...

[jojobinks]

i have dice, btw, and i like them fine, but have been buying samples for a month now, and can't wait to upgrade.

the feel: it's hard to describe. i think it might just be the friction. they actually riffle; i thought i was a retard b/c i couldn't riffle my dice; they're just pretty hard to do, b/c they slip all over the place. the clays don't want to slip all over. they stack without wobbling. the dice have a hard time over 20 or so; if you're on a table with foam padding, 20 is questionable.

and they look worlds apart.

the sound of dice: terrible. they sound like party poker chips, that obnoxious sound effect...ugh. clay chips are much more subdued, less grating of a sound.

[Slow Play Ray]

Simple - most people on this forum are the "poker snob" of their respective groups...myself included. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 11.5g chips, functionally speaking. But the fact is that the type of people who seek out forums like these are generally the ones who care about the authenticity of their game, and all of the "little things" that contribute to that. So that's why you see the attitude towards "inferior" equipment here.

[jon_1van]

nm

[Rhone]

[ QUOTE ]
nm

[/ QUOTE ]

umm...because it has no real flavor and leaves a bad aftertaste?

There, see how easy it is to give a real answer when you try?

[jon_1van]

[ QUOTE ]
i have the "crappy dice chips" but i'm not ashamed. i would have rather spent my money on a nice casino style table than casino chips. but the dice chips definately get the job done. nothing wrong with them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with wanting the table instead of the chips. But there are 2 problems. 1. I don't have space for a great table. 2. A table (with chairs) is much much more expensive then 2k smoking chips.

Hensly Tables (http://www.hensleygametables.com/)

I'd kill for one of these table...but....I just don't have the space for one.

[jon_1van]

Hey...I actually like PBR.

But people make fun of it.

Its the same logic. And slightly more obvious

Its like

cheap plastic bee chips == moonshine
dice chips == rail liquor (A HUGE step up from moonshine)
paulson type clay == grey goose / tanguery ten (a much smaller step up from rail...but very expensive)

[Johnny5]

You know most here aren't big fans of 11.5 gram dice chips, so if I were you, i'd be more suprised that I didn't get a lot of answers like:

'CAUSE THEY SUCK

If you don't care about the quality of chip you play with, then go for the inexpensive 11.5 gram chips. If you do, and can afford it, go for quality chips like the ones you find in casinos.

J5

[Rhone]

[ QUOTE ]
You know most here aren't big fans of 11.5 gram dice chips, so if I were you, i'd be more suprised that I didn't get a lot of answers like:

'CAUSE THEY SUCK

If you don't care about the quality of chip you play with, then go for the inexpensive 11.5 gram chips. If you do, and can afford it, go for quality chips like the ones you find in casinos.

J5

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, the whole point of my post was not that I don't care about quality, rather, I'm trying to figure out what precisely makes one chip more of a quality chip than another. I don't know enough to have my own opinions on the subject yet. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Slow Play Ray]

[ QUOTE ]
A table (with chairs) is much much more expensive then 2k smoking chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

My table came in at $225 + my labor. My chips are costing me $637.50.

Wow, I wish I didn't just see that in print like that.

[jon_1van]

I live in the city.

So I don't have the space / "willingness to crap up my place with dust" to build my own table.

Because that table would have to be double as cool poker table AND "guest quality" dinning table.

I can't hack off my wife by buying something that will look strange when we have guests over. And since we only have space for 1 table. The poker table will also have to be a dining table

[Spooky]

Have you every played in a casino?

If so, what kind of chips were they? (you have probably seen pictures of the various types by now to tell)

If you were to do a side-by-side comparison of all the different types of chips, there would most likely be one kind/type/style of chip that you thought was the best. For me it would be a classic clay chip due mostly to the feel and sound, I'm almost 100% sure of that. For someone else it might be a chipco style because of the snazzy graphics. Either way, it probably would NOT be the "dice" chips.

Once you see the differences that are out there you will appreciate how people can have the different prefferences. But in the end it indeed boils down to a comparison like "Oak Furnature" vs. "Oak veneer Particle-Board Furnature" They will both do the same function almost equally well, one will look a little better perhaps with more "style", the other will be more afordable.

[Slow Play Ray]

gotcha.

[warewulf]

Short answer: Made in China

Long answer: There are few chips worse in quality than the dice chips. They are unstable in stacks of 10. The paint on them wears off after a short period of time -- I have a friend that has a set that is less than a year old. He got them hot stamped. Not only is the hot stamping wearing off, but the paint on the chips is also wearing off which makes them look terrible.

I'm not going to bother talking about how much better real chips are. The main thing to realize is there are better cheap chips out there. My original set of 5 gram diamond hot stamped chips are much better than dice chips. I have a set of 300 that are over 15 years old, still use them sometimes. They are stable in stacks of 10-20, they sound closer to the real thing. If someone hands you a free set of dice chips, good! If you're spending your own money on them, get something better. You can't do much worse.

If someone gave me a choice of a set of 500 dice chips or 500 of these: http://www.5stardeal.com/deals/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=10-1600

even though they're less expensive than the dice chips, I'd still take the cheaper ones because they have a better feel, weight, and stack better. Will also not fade over time.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
the sound of dice: terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

*CLANK*

[AngryCola]

I have a whole mess of crappy dice chips that I never use, but the shipping cost isn't worth it to me.

[Art Vandelay]

I recently got 1000 of those things simply because they were so damn cheap. The sound of those things is very close to casino chips and you can shuffle them easily. The only draw back to them is the look, they look like a pile of crap but they are VERY good chips for the price you pay.

I'd recommend those 100 times before I'd recommend the 11.5 g dice chips. Still, to each his own and if someone likes the dice chips more power to them.

[jmgurgeh]

Let me qualify this by saying that if you get a set of 500 with a case, and that works for the games you play with friends, there's nothing wrong with that. But there are several very good reasons to dislike the dice chips. Here are my favorite:

1. They have dice on them. What do dice have to do with poker? You could at least get the "suited" version, which I think look significantly better.

2. Even the suited versions aren't great looking.

3. They don't sound right. At all. Plastic composite chips like these make a very high-pitched "clink" when they hit each other, and it just sounds terrible. Do this with some chips in a casino if you want to tell the difference.

4. You can get much better chips for not much more money. I'm happy with my 3-stripe suited clay composite chips (still have metal slugs, but man they sound much better than the dice chips). If you want to spend a little more than that, you can get Nexgens. I haven't played with those before, but they have a great reputation on these forums.

5. Balance. Stack these things and column will wiggle. Stack good chips and they stay put.

Bottom line though, if you play with dice chips and then play with casino chips and can't tell a difference, then don't bother spending the extra money. There is no need to exclusively play with clay chips, and in fact nobody I know even has a set because there are some high quality clay composite chips that sound, feel, and look great. But that said, the more you play, the more you get a feel for chip quality, and I think the more you want to play with better chips.

[smoore]

[ QUOTE ]
cheap plastic bee chips == moonshine
dice chips == rail liquor (A HUGE step up from moonshine)


[/ QUOTE ]

You are drinking the WRONG moonshine /images/graemlins/wink.gif My shine is a big step up from rail liquor. It's better if it's been aged but you can drink it right out of the still.

edit: back on topic... take a stack of dice chips and mess around with position and facing for a couple minutes. You'll probably find two that will make a good "spinner bearing", then you can spin the top half of the stack on the bottom half.

Basically, they are cheaply made. It's like asking, "Why bother to buy Mac or Snap-On tools when you can get chinese tools for 1/20th the price?" Yes, the chinese tools turn nuts but they don't do it with the same comfort, accuracy and reliability.

If you don't care about labels, buy the $0.06 "faux clay" dice chips from 5stardeal. if you want the security of custom chips, buy the nexgens or the "big slick" chips from 5stardeal, under $0.20 each. If you want Snap-on tools, buy chipcos or paulsons /images/graemlins/wink.gif I used standard dice chips in my home games for a couple years and they worked fine.

[toots]

And Paulson=Grey Goose?

Lagavulin or Macallan, please.

[msb]

[ QUOTE ]
1. They have dice on them. What do dice have to do with poker?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't disagree with the points you made, but I think I could also say, "What do horse heads have to do with poker?" or "Top Hats and Canes" or "Clamshells" or "Egyptian Pyraminds", etc...

I think you get my point...

[Accident]

[ QUOTE ]
'CAUSE THEY SUCK



[/ QUOTE ]
That was the 1st thing that came to mind, but I didnt want to be THAT guy, haha.
A /images/graemlins/club.gif
Chip/card/table snob. I do love crappy players tho!!

[Accident]

Everyone has those 'dice' chips also, and if you have unscrupulous people coming to your games, well, put 2 and 2 together.
FYI
A /images/graemlins/club.gif

[msb]

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone has those 'dice' chips also, and if you have unscrupulous people coming to your games, well, put 2 and 2 together.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes. That is one of my motivators to getting something else. I haven't come up short yet... but the more and more I see of those around, the more and more anxious I get.

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Everyone has those 'dice' chips also, and if you have unscrupulous people coming to your games, well, put 2 and 2 together.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes. That is one of my motivators to getting something else. I haven't come up short yet... but the more and more I see of those around, the more and more anxious I get.

[/ QUOTE ]

Get custom labels and you don't have to worry as much about everyone having dice chips and sneaking them in.

Plus, if you get all of yours from the same manufacturer and they sneak theirs in from another site, the colors may be off (some are brighter than others, etc.)

[lighterjobs]

[ QUOTE ]
They are unstable in stacks of 10. The paint on them wears off after a short period of time

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe i've gotten a different kind of dice chips, but i can stack mine in a stack of 50 or better and they don't fall over. and i've had mine for well over a year a half and haven't had any issue with the paint chipping off.

[jmgurgeh]

The things you mentioned on chips generally represent some kind of establishment, theme, etc. Dice represent . . . craps?

I could see having just about anything on chips. Even bunnies (hey Playboy could start a casino). But other gambling items like dice, roulette wheels, slot machines, seem out of place to me on a poker chip.

That, and why would you ever take the dice design over the suited design given the choice?

[speclj]

[ QUOTE ]
One of my best friends said to me the first time he hefted one of my Egyptians. "Are these the full eleven and a half grams?" He is a proud dice chip owner, hotstamped and everything. Carries those chips everywhere he goes. Trys to bring them into every game, to do the other guy a "favor" by letting him use the Official Casino Dice chips.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is hilarious. I don't like my "Official Casino Quality" chips very much (can't afford the nicer ones atm), but am continually amazed at how much the average person that shows up to my home game is 'blown away' by them. They are certainly better than the plastic interlocking ones though, that's for sure.

But Goddamn, they're slippery.

[toots]

The first chips I bought were a set of those dice chips.

I was amazed at how crappy they were. I then went on a sample ordering spree, and eventually decided to spend way too much money on Paulsons on eBay.

Way too much money.

But, oh, the difference. My day ain't complete without some good quality time fondling some H&Cs.

Interestingly, my office mate liked the dice chips better.

[warewulf]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They are unstable in stacks of 10. The paint on them wears off after a short period of time

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe i've gotten a different kind of dice chips, but i can stack mine in a stack of 50 or better and they don't fall over. and i've had mine for well over a year a half and haven't had any issue with the paint chipping off.

[/ QUOTE ]

Post pics or a link. The ones my friend has are like these:
http://www.5stardeal.com/deals/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=10-1300

Not the dice chips, but the same.

[msb]

[ QUOTE ]
The things you mentioned on chips generally represent some kind of establishment, theme, etc. Dice represent . . . craps?

I could see having just about anything on chips. Even bunnies (hey Playboy could start a casino). But other gambling items like dice, roulette wheels, slot machines, seem out of place to me on a poker chip.

That, and why would you ever take the dice design over the suited design given the choice?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't... but my point was that horseheads have just as little relevance to poker as do dice, but you wouldn't pass on the ASMs because of it, would you?

(By the way, what establishment do the horseheads represent?)

[warewulf]

On my way to work today, I was reading Brunson's book: "Poker Wisdom of a Champion".

From a chapter titled: "Getting More Chips than You Bargained For" --

"That's the problem with cheap plastic chips. All a theif needs to do is shop around. Usually he can find the same brand that the poker host is using. After that, it's just a matter of how much he wants to steal... So what's the alternative to inexpensive plastic chips? Buy a specially made set with your initials on them, registered by a reputable company. They will guarantee that the design is reserved for you chips only, so no duplicates will be sold to anyone else. It's a little expensive, but it's worth the money. You shouldn't even consider having a home game without professional-quality chips."

The godfather has spoken! Heed his wise words or learn the hard way! I understand if you play with the same guys ALL THE TIME. However, I don't. I get people online and usually have at least one new person at every game. People have been caught cheating, etc. I have ended up with a few extra $5 chips at the end of the night too. This will never happen again. Security is very important to many.

[msb]

If you're going to spend .11 a chip... from what I gather from reading here, you'd be better off spending .06 per chip and get

these (http://www.5stardeal.com/deals/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=10-1600): http://www.5stardeal.com/website/gaming/pictures/10-1600red.jpg

or these (http://www.5stardeal.com/deals/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=10-1010): http://www.5stardeal.com/website/gaming/pictures/10-1010blu.jpg

[warewulf]

Yup, both of those are better quality than the dice chips.

Hot stamp them and you have light security.