i'm going blind -- it burns, it burns!

[hutz]

I think the single biggest hole in my game is how to play/defend against blind steal opportunities. Invariably, I end up with everyone folding to me in the SB with Axo, K8o, etc. I routinely raise this, but then have the misfortune of all rags flopping and having the BB raise my bet. The reverse is true, too. I defend my BB with any ace, medium-kicker kings, and highly coordinated cards.

I am seriously considering passing on all steal/defense opportunities unless I have a top hand. I play primarily LL online, where (on average) only about a third of the players at any particular table are known to me. In other words, I don't believe taking a weak-tight approach in the blinds would hurt my image (such as it is) or cause people to run over me. What, if any, EV impact should I expect to have with this approach? Does anyone else have this problem or have a suggested solution? /forums/images/icons/confused.gif

[Allan]

I am seriously considering passing on all steal/defense opportunities unless I have a top hand

This is how I approached learning blind steal/defense play. I started with a weak/tight hand selection and eventually got more and more comfortable adding more and more hands as well as more plays in these spots. Pay special attention to what your opponents are stealing with and relate that to what you want to call or reraise with. When I was learning on micro-limits I noticed that a few players had no concept of stealing blinds and only raised with big pairs as the first one in. Obviously against an opponent like this you don't want to play against unless you have an excellent hand. I like to mix it up quite a bit against a normal opponent, sometimes only calling with something like AT and sometimes reraising with something like 65s. You should pay special attention to this part of your game since it gives you trouble. If you have any intention of moving up in limits you're going to have to learn this aspect of play.

BTW what range of hands are you thinking about as "top hands"? Maybe if you gave us an idea of what you're starting with it would be easier to see where your approach is coming from.


Allan

[Clarkmeister]

Try practicing at the Paradise headsup play tables. It will really help sharpen your game, and the players who practice on the 1 on 1 tables are generally fairly serious.

[AceHigh]

Read or reread short-handed section of HEFAP. That should get you started in the right direction.

[hutz]

The following is totally off-the-cuff, so don't be too tough on me. In weak-tight mode, I'd raise (is there much reason to limp?) from the SB with 55-AA, offsuit aces A7o and above, offsuit kings K9o and above, offsuit queens QTo and above, any suited ace or king, suited connectors 76s and above, suited one-gappers T8s and above, and suited two-gappers Q9s and above. I'd loosen up a touch from this list while defending my BB from a SB raise. Against a BB raise from SB, the list would shrink fairly considerably, in which case I'd likely 3-bet, while from the BB the list would only shrink a small bit (to account for the weaker position relative to the BB v. SB situation).

A potential problem with this is that, if rags fall, observant opponents will figure the odds of me hitting the board will be low. This wouldn't be a huge concern to me in weak-tight mode, however, because I wouldn't be pushing marginal hands post-flop.

Any comments on these thoughts will be appreciated.

[Ginogino]

Since you use up only 8 cards for the board (the 5 upcards plus 3 burn cards), in theory you could play HE 22-handed. If you did, I suspect you'd want to have AA or KK just to think you had the best hand before the flop.

As the number of players shrinks, the quality of hand that you'd think was usually best before the flop also diminishes. It takes less of a hand to beat two random hands than it takes to beat 6 random hands, and it takes even less of a hand to beat 3 random hands.

You are playing against 1 random hand when everyone folds to the Small Blind [yes, the fact that 8 "bad hands" have folded does impact so a slight extent, and you should take that into account]. And your raise costs you 1.5 small bets to make, and only costs your opponent a single small bet to call. Also, he has position on you.

Nevertheless, I'd persist "attacking" with hands that have the power to win unimproved (Ax), as well as hands that stand up well to a (mostly) random hand if either card pairs. In a full ring game, you are going to be in the blinds 20% of the time. An important factor is seat choice. If the player to your left is outplaying you in the blinds, move to another seat. Put a weak-tight player to your left, if you can (and if you can't find one in your game, find another table).

Regarding blind "defense", because the attacker is attacking a small number of "random" hands, the range of hands he'll attack with is relatively large, in theory. When you've got a better hand than the kind of hand he'll raise with, make him pay. Sometimes he'll outdraw you, but mostly the better hand before the flop will win. Don't be the weak-tight he wants on his left.

[Allan]

This group of hands seems absolutely reasonable. I think maybe you should try and figure out what you wanna just call with from the bb and what you wanna re-raise with.

because I wouldn't be pushing marginal hands post-flop.

I'm a little confused by this statement. I'm not quite sure what you mean....just remember that middle pair and bottom pair as well as A and K high are frequently enough to win. Think about how you wanna play these on the flop too. Bet out, check raise, check call? Many options and many decisions....


Allan