some nastier type rumors

[Boris]

At Bay101, if you have been crushing the higher limits be very careful about your car. You may find it keyed. I talked to two players who have been victims and heard of a third. One of the players claims that security cameras captured the perpetrator walking to his car and then walking away. But the actual keying was out of view. He also claims that Marco won't tell him who the perp is because he doesn't want anymore trouble at his casino.

At the Commerce, I witnessed one hand with a fouled deck and talked to two other players who have also witnessed hands with a fouled deck recently. I've been playing poker for 3 or 4 years now and can count on one hand the number times this has happened when I'm in a game. Sounds like we may have a hold out artist or two on the loose. Hopefully the new shuffle machines will curb that activity. Of course it could be that the Commerce deals so many more hands of poker that these incidents seem more common place.

[andyfox]

Hmmm . . .

At Commerce, I tip the valet guys to leave my car up front for me. Lots of the regulars, I think, know my car. It was keyed recently and, while I'm not positive it was at Commerce (it could have been at my office, where more people would have "cause" to do so), it's possible it happened at Commerce.

While I haven't seen any fouled decks, I am seeing many more marked cards. Usually the kings, which I always had thought meant the decks had come from the lowball table. One can only ask for a new set-up on the hour now; I think perhaps some players are marking the cards so as to "find" it and then ask for a new set-up more often than the rules now allow.

Having said that, though, and Russ G. and "Tilt" notwithstanding, I think B&M players in general, myself included, are not as aware as we should be about possible cheating in the cardrooms.

[Phat Mack]

While I haven't seen any fouled decks, I am seeing many more marked cards. Usually the kings, which I always had thought meant the decks had come from the lowball table.

How are they marked? Are the cards plastic or paper?

[J.A.Sucker]

Getting your car keyed is probably the least of your worries in these situations. Maybe I've been hearing too many of Ray's stories, but I'm much more on my toes now. That said, my car is such a POS, documented by Ray himself on this forum, that a good keying would probably add character.

As for the hold-outs, I wouldn't doubt that for a moment, especially with the proliferation of NL games, especially at Commerce where there many games to choose from and the management is piss-poor. I wouldn't feel too comforted by the shuffle machines, either. They just count the cards in the deck, and any good hold-outs will exchange the cards back in, which is why you have been seeing duplicate cards. In fact, the shuffle machines may make this easier, since deck changes are less frequent now.

Nicked cards have also been more of a problem for me lately. I always get them out of play, and constantly get setups when things aren't right. At Commerce, I found bad cards several times within an hour. Terrible. At Bay, it's not much better sometimes. You have to protect yourself, since the casino won't do it for you.

As for good marked cards, if they have paper in the games, I suspect that you'll never be able to read it, so there's not a thing you can do. If you feel things aren't right, then quit. It's that simple.

[Toro]

If someone is marking cards at a table, how hard would it be to get catch them in the act and is it worth the effort to try?

[Gramps]

Live poker is rigged. That's why I only play on the internet. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Analyst]

[ QUOTE ]
At Bay101, if you have been crushing the higher limits be very careful about your car. You may find it keyed. I talked to two players who have been victims and heard of a third. One of the players claims that security cameras captured the perpetrator walking to his car and then walking away. But the actual keying was out of view. He also claims that Marco won't tell him who the perp is because he doesn't want anymore trouble at his casino.


[/ QUOTE ]

Other things can happen as well, not physical but nasty nonetheless. I've become, if not paranoid, substantially more careful around Bay101.

[mike l.]

"my car is such a POS,"

ok you may be better looking, thinner, younger, and a better player, but if there's one thing i beat you at hands down it's this:

i have a much shiitier car. two of em in fact.

[slickpoppa]

Do the cardrooms protect against daubing (placing an invisible ink on cards that can only be viewed through special sunglasses)? Obviously regular casinos have an interest in preventing this at their blackjack tables, but poker rooms are probably not as vigilant because its not their money being taken.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Live poker is rigged. That's why I only play on the internet. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

nh

[andyfox]

Thumbnail impressions.

[Boris]

[ QUOTE ]
...which I always had thought meant the decks had come from the lowball table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lowball? I heard they played that in the olden days.

[andyfox]

There's a 30-60 game every day. If you write down the birth years of all the players, you go back to the Magna Carta. And the nice one died a few years ago.

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
If someone is marking cards at a table, how hard would it be to get catch them in the act and is it worth the effort to try?

[/ QUOTE ]

Very hard to catch. Its very easy to mark a card (not so easy to marka card properly), but very hard to see the mark from across the table. From my research (and now personal experiance in one occasion) a marked card with a fingernail can mostly only be seen when the card is in the muck. It is very hard to see the mark in an opponents hand.

Reguardless if a deck is fouled, it is important to consider that the average cheat is probably a bad and overly agressive player. These players are easy to dominate when the right variables are met reguardless of the markings... it only takes paitence.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm . . .

I am seeing many more marked cards. Usually the kings, which I always had thought meant the decks had come from the lowball table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting observation Andy. The only live marked card I have found was at the Trop in AC. They have hi-low split, but no lowball. The card was a King as well, fellow 2+2'er Evan was there to witness my little fit when I found it (which in hindsight I admit was a mistake). I always found it odd that we played with that deck for probably 1/2 hour and I had seen my fair share of Aces, yet I didn't notice a mark on any of them. Not that I was looking for one, when I got the King it was so blatantly obvious that it could not be ignored by anyone who saw in a movie how to apply marks on cards.

PS: If anyone is reading this thread has the bright idea of trying this themselves then don't bother. A fingernail imprint is very obvious, its a short matter of time before the deck will be removed from play. There have been plenty of TV shows that discuss this, its an exercise in futility.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Blackjack]

Yikes..

I saw "daubbing" on las vegas. Using the ink with contact lenses that would normally be naked to the invisible eye.

Would be so easy to mark the cards if you had a card protector with the ink inside.

Blackjack

[Peter]

[ QUOTE ]
Do the cardrooms protect against daubing (placing an invisible ink on cards that can only be viewed through special sunglasses)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Cards marked through invisible ink that can only be viewed through special sunglasses is generally referred to as luminous readers.
Daubing is the term for marking cards during play by making some sort of smudge on the card, this can be seen by the naked eye.

Peter

[Phat Mack]

From my research (and now personal experiance in one occasion) a marked card with a fingernail can mostly only be seen when the card is in the muck.

They used to nail kings to facilitate their delivery to one-card draws. A pat jack would jam before the draw, a 7-2 would draw one, the nailed king (easy to ID) would have been placed on the top or bottom of the deck, and off it would come.

In these days of center dealers, plastic cards and the demise of lowball, nailed kings are a mystery to me. Aren't plastic cards hard to nail without it being obvious? Why nail a king in a hold 'em game? Are they being nailed for the dealer or the player? I would think a pro mechanic could ID cards without nailing them.

[Luv2DriveTT]

Beats the hell out of me. But I can tell you that older, slightly abused Kems can be nailed.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[goofball]

[ QUOTE ]
Live poker is rigged. That's why I only play on the internet. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

nh