$50+5: Open-limping shortstack in the SB

[spentrent]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t850)
Hero (t2965)
UTG (t2535)
MP (t2555)
Button (t1095)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
3 folds, SB completes...

Hero?

I push here. Thoughts?

[jah0550]

Depending on the player, I'd push. He is trying to see a flop cheap. I'm guessing he has something like 67s or J10o, because I think he would have pushed better hands to try and steal your BB.

[Iamafish]

This is tough. I think id have to be in the situation to actually KNOW how to handle it.

But, I think I might have raised quite a bit here and try a steal. Why? Becuase if he calls, you lose, that hand sucks.

Later, push on a better hand.

Think of it this way, you push, and you lose. Or, you bet big, then you both check to the river (this is just pretend) and you lose. Either way you lose but the second one leaves you still in the game, and hopefully in the money.

-Hope that helps.

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
This is tough. I think id have to be in the situation to actually KNOW how to handle it.

But, I think I might have raised quite a bit here and try a steal. Why? Becuase if he calls, you lose, that hand sucks.

Later, push on a better hand.

Think of it this way, you push, and you lose. Or, you bet big, then you both check to the river (this is just pretend) and you lose. Either way you lose but the second one leaves you still in the game, and hopefully in the money.

-Hope that helps.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero is the big stack in the BB in this example.

[kevstreet]

I actually tried a Stop and Go in this situation recently and it worked perfectly! It was almost identical, I was chip leader and could afford to make a move on the short stack in the SB. I figured if he had a good hand and I tried to stuff the pot it would be an auto-call for him, so I thought I'd just call with all intentions of a push on the flop. Sure enough the board was atrocious 8, 6, 3, completely missed me but I moved all in on him anyway and he folded. Not sure if this is the proper use of this play but it worked.

[Iamafish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is tough. I think id have to be in the situation to actually KNOW how to handle it.

But, I think I might have raised quite a bit here and try a steal. Why? Becuase if he calls, you lose, that hand sucks.

Later, push on a better hand.

Think of it this way, you push, and you lose. Or, you bet big, then you both check to the river (this is just pretend) and you lose. Either way you lose but the second one leaves you still in the game, and hopefully in the money.

-Hope that helps.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero is the big stack in the BB in this example.

[/ QUOTE ]

woops i looked at buttons stack.

[RobGW]

Some considerations are in order before making this type of move. How does the SB usually play? If he normally comes in for a raise then a warning bell should be going off in your head here. If he is normally a passive player, then you can think about pushing. You want to send a message to him and the rest of the table that you are crazy and they need to fold to your BB. This is a good opportunity because the SB can't hurt you. If you lose your still in good shape. This is the type of move that you only need to do once or twice. Any more than that and your probably going to walk into a trap. OTOH, any hand with a 2 is not a great hand to try this with if you think he will call.

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
I actually tried a Stop and Go in this situation recently and it worked perfectly! It was almost identical, I was chip leader and could afford to make a move on the short stack in the SB. I figured if he had a good hand and I tried to stuff the pot it would be an auto-call for him, so I thought I'd just call with all intentions of a push on the flop. Sure enough the board was atrocious 8, 6, 3, completely missed me but I moved all in on him anyway and he folded. Not sure if this is the proper use of this play but it worked.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the short stack in your example would have to be extremely tight for me to consider making the same play.

By allowing him to limp, you're letting him see the flop for a great price, 3 to 1, with a ~2 to 1 shot of pairing up on the flop. The short stack loves any pair here -- unless of course he's EXTREMELY tight.

I think you get some higher tasty chip EV by pushing pre-flop if you consider the chance that he will fold with the chance that you'll win if called.

[AA suited]

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t850)
Hero (t2965)
UTG (t2535)
MP (t2555)
Button (t1095)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
3 folds, SB completes...

Hero?

I push here. Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

hm.. if i were i sb, i would have pushed, and spared spentrent the decision of pushing or not. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

unless sb had a monster /images/graemlins/smile.gif

(the sb should have pushed, right???)

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
I actually tried a Stop and Go in this situation recently and it worked perfectly! It was almost identical, I was chip leader and could afford to make a move on the short stack in the SB. I figured if he had a good hand and I tried to stuff the pot it would be an auto-call for him, so I thought I'd just call with all intentions of a push on the flop. Sure enough the board was atrocious 8, 6, 3, completely missed me but I moved all in on him anyway and he folded. Not sure if this is the proper use of this play but it worked.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't play a stop n go from the BB on the SB.

Do you see why?

Yugoslav