PDA

View Full Version : TT on a paired board/w overcard

kyro
03-01-2005, 03:57 AM
I'm pretty sure I botched this hand pretty badly but I want to make sure. Always confused with situations like this. First orbit, no reads.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.33 SB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero..

Also, a plan for the rest of the hand assuming I stay in.
DemonDeac
03-01-2005, 04:03 AM
i call the bet and fold to anymore UTG aggression without set
Argus
03-01-2005, 04:21 AM
[ QUOTE ]
i call the bet and fold to anymore UTG aggression without set

[/ QUOTE ]
I was puzzled by this hand, so can you provide more explanation please? You aren't getting odds to draw and a bluffer will often fire again on the turn. Why is your line better than raising and folding to a 3-bet or stop and go, or just calling down. Or even folding right there?
Chris Daddy Cool
03-01-2005, 04:37 AM
whats your read on UTG? folding here is too weak so you should raise and see whats up. this isn't neccessarily a case of way behind or way ahead, though it potentially can be if he has a pp&lt;10. but hte problem is the bb is in the hand as well and you'd hate to give him a cheap look to spike an A,K, or J. HU i would call down, 3 way I would raise to force the other guy out adn then you see what action develops from there, which usually means value betting the big streets.
BusterStacks
03-01-2005, 05:17 AM
[ QUOTE ]
whats your read on UTG? folding here is too weak so you should raise and see whats up. this isn't neccessarily a case of way behind or way ahead, though it potentially can be if he has a pp&lt;10. but hte problem is the bb is in the hand as well and you'd hate to give him a cheap look to spike an A,K, or J. HU i would call down, 3 way I would raise to force the other guy out adn then you see what action develops from there, which usually means value betting the big streets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this line too.
BDP
03-01-2005, 05:44 AM
[ QUOTE ]
whats your read on UTG? folding here is too weak so you should raise and see whats up. this isn't neccessarily a case of way behind or way ahead, though it potentially can be if he has a pp&lt;10. but hte problem is the bb is in the hand as well and you'd hate to give him a cheap look to spike an A,K, or J. HU i would call down, 3 way I would raise to force the other guy out adn then you see what action develops from there, which usually means value betting the big streets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Say you raise and you get the BB to fold and the other guy calls so now it's HU. How do you act if:

-The turn is a scare card and he bets into you
-The turn is a non-scare card and he bets into you
-The turn is a scare card and he checks to you
-The turn is a non-scare card and he checks to you

I assume your answer will be to bet on the last two scenarios so i'm mainly interested in the first two.
jt1
03-01-2005, 05:51 AM
I've been folding in these situations lately. Mainly, because a well respected poster advised me to do so in a similar situation, though, not exactly the same. But I think folding is correct, because, of reverse implied odds.

It will cost you 2 bb for showdown and at best you will win 5.5 bb. I think UTG has you beat more than a third of the time. In my recent experience, which i realize is biased due to chance, UTG has you beat about half the time.
mtdoak
03-01-2005, 06:12 AM
I raise to eliminate any more overcards and muck to a 3 bet or if he leads out the turn.
spydog
03-01-2005, 09:35 AM
Raise the flop. If 3-bet, then fold. If BB calls 2 cold on the flop, prepare to check/fold the turn. If HU with UTG, then bet turn and river unless more broadway cards hit.
chief444
03-01-2005, 09:42 AM
I'm just curious as to what you would consider a scare card? Once you get it heads-up you're either way behind a Q or 4 or way ahead of a smaller pocket pair. Seeing another Q or 4 just make a smaller pocket pair more likely.
jt1
03-01-2005, 10:36 AM
I'm loosing my head. Ignore my post completely. What I said makes no mathematical sense.
ZootMurph
03-01-2005, 11:01 AM
Often early position players will bet out on a flop in hopes of stealing the pot. I see this a lot in 3/6. So I raise the flop bet of UTG. If he reraises, I'm done. If he calls, I'm done with the hand and I hope to either get lucky with a ten or free card.
PokerBob
03-01-2005, 01:49 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure I botched this hand pretty badly but I want to make sure. Always confused with situations like this. First orbit, no reads.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.33 SB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero..

Also, a plan for the rest of the hand assuming I stay in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raise. Fold to a 3-bet. If just called, bet the turn and fold to a c/r.

EDIT: I am assuming your flop raise blows BB away. If he cold calls, use caution.
BDP
03-01-2005, 05:49 PM
Just another over card.
johnnycakes
03-01-2005, 05:57 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure I botched this hand pretty badly but I want to make sure. Always confused with situations like this. First orbit, no reads.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.33 SB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero..

Also, a plan for the rest of the hand assuming I stay in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raise. Fold to a 3-bet. If just called, bet the turn and fold to a c/r.

EDIT: I am assuming your flop raise blows BB away. If he cold calls, use caution.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my line too.
But what if you bet the turn, get called, and checked to on a blank river?
Check behind or is it a value bet?
I think it's usually pretty close and have trouble deciding what the right play is.
In this particular case, I'd say check because he's probably holdong something like QJ more often than a lower PP at the river with all the hypothetical action on previous streets.