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View Full Version : Pct Flops seen vs. Hold'em?


BigRedAce
03-01-2005, 03:05 AM
I'm a pretty tight hold'em player (often around 20% hands to see the flop, sometimes lower) and I am checking my % to see the flop right now in a limit O8B tournament I'm in and I am horrified:

52%

I try to Omaha pretty tight too and generally make money (both online and in B&M). I'm in 2nd right now in this tournament but I still think maybe I am seeing too many flops. Thoughts from the O8 masters?

(P.S. I fold hands that look good but play bad like pairs of middle pairs, middle wraps, etc. and generally stick to suited A-low, suited faces/connectors. I always fold the obvious stuff like trips, 3 to a suit, etc.)

Buzz
03-01-2005, 04:39 AM
[ QUOTE ]
52%

[/ QUOTE ]

Big Red Ace - Seems like an awful lot of hands you're playing.

Could be one of those anomalies you sometimes encounter.

But, yes, 52% seems too high.

Buzz

HajiShirazu
03-01-2005, 06:28 AM
After 1100 hands my VP$P is a rock-like 11.64 (PFR 6.91.) The thing is, I still feel like I sometimes play some hands that I probably shouldn't play!
Nobody ever raises so it's not BB play, but my VP$P from the SB is the same as my overall VP$P. Maybe I need to play a few more hands from the SB, and a few more hands from late position. But which ones, I wonder. I still don't think that playing hands like an A3 with no suited ace and bad side cards can be profitable as I have noticed such hands do very poorly after the flop, only rarely flopping a hand with any chance to scoop. It seems like even the poor A2's often cost me money as I am caught drawing to half the pot that may not even be good for that much if it hits. Maybe in good position I should start playing some of the high-oriented hands with weaker low possibilities, hands like As(4/5)+(broadway connector/big pair), or hands like 23+(big pair/double suited to broadway.) It seems like most of the pots that I scoop or 3/4, I have the nuts or close to it in one direction, and end up with a surprising winner in the other, like a weak two pair or even one pair vs a low hand, trips, or a low flush, or a strong high and a crappy low against somebody who was also going high.

chaos
03-01-2005, 09:13 AM
Seems very high
Should be about half that if you are playing tight preflop.

Beavis68
03-01-2005, 12:58 PM
I used to be profitable at <34%, but I have tightened up to my VPIP is not about 22%, but I don't know my total flops seen, I am trying to tighten up more. My Won $ at showdown is around 85%.

djr
03-01-2005, 02:11 PM
I'm around 22% as well. Now, I'm probably a bit too loose (I think 18-20% is where I'm trying to settle down to). I really think your VPIP depends on what games you're playing (both the table's looseness, the PFR %, and they're willingness to chase crap hands). If I'm at a tougher game (in terms of postflop ability or preflop aggression) I'll tighten up my requirements a bit more (if the table is full of tight people, I just leave). But I honestly think that if you're VPIP is <15% you're giving up a lot of profit (although your variance is probably pretty small). It's like playing holdem according to Hellmuth's strategy of playing only the top 10 hands. Sure you're going to be a winner, but not as much of one as the guy who plays more hands when it is correct to do so.