Playing vs Ultra-Loose Players In NL HE Ring Game

[aeakos]

Assume the game I'm talking about is a live, small stakes NL HE, $10-$30 buyin, played a few times a week. I typically play a very solid, TAG style. I have been having issues vs players who play >85% of their flops and call nearly all preflop raises. The type of players I'm speaking of constitute about 30-50% of the players. You may know players like this who commonly say "You can't win if you're sitting out or I hate sitting out." To me, it is very difficult to play vs these players without a monster hand and I need your help.

My question to you is, how do you adjust your game vs these players? How do you play top pair? How do you play when you miss your flop? Etc. Can you recommend any good ring game books or books that apply to this type of situation. I base most of my game around math, so if you want to take it in that direction please do...but not entirely please.

Thanks in advance.

[TrailofTears]

Assuming you play good poker, and TAG as you say, you already know how to beat these players. Most likely you have been unlucky and it is hard to see that because the sessions are only a hundred hands long. Also, don't bother bluffing.

-Trail

[Brian B]

I am in a similar situation in my dorm game. We usually have about 8 or 9 players who typically begin with a $20 buy in, playing .25/.50 blinds, and there will be a few rebuys as the game goes on. There are about 3 or 4 constant LAGs, and a couple loose/weak players. Most of them will call a preflop raise from any position and regardless of who raised from what position. Today, I ended up down 2 buy ins when my AK lost to K7o (he had 2 pair against my Ks), then lost when someone hit a straight draw after going all in against my 2 pair, then lost with A /images/graemlins/club.gifA /images/graemlins/spade.gif to Q /images/graemlins/club.gif6 /images/graemlins/club.gif when he hit a flush on the turn and I couldnt fill up or catch another club on the river.

So I guess if I could start fading their draws, I should be ok against these guys, but its tough to have patience against these guys who basically are just throwing their money around.

[aeakos]

Yes, these are the same type of things I am having happen against me. I'll put in a hefty raise with my top pair or 2 pair, but it doesn't stop them from calling generally. Hence my request for advice.

[Ghazban]

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Yes, these are the same type of things I am having happen against me. I'll put in a hefty raise with my top pair or 2 pair, but it doesn't stop them from calling generally. Hence my request for advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

You WANT them to call. If they suck out, that's poker. Most of the time they won't and, assuming they didn't have odds to call, you will get all their money in the long run.

[Wifeb123]

This is exactly what you want! You want them to call you raises and call down when you have them beat. REmember its all one big long session. Yes, occationaly you will be beat on ur aces by a flush but 60-80 percent of the time you are gonna win. All you have to adjust is your raising standards. You should raise with drawings hands such as AK, AQ, AJ or anything of the sort, suited or not. Whats the point of throwing an extra couple dollars in if no one is going to fold, you cant bluff, and it will only hit sometimes. Just call, see the flop, and if you hit it, bet hard and hope they saw the flop with A7 or K4s like the poor players they seem to be. These plays in the long run with make you a big winner. Stay tight, dont raise unless you have class 1 hands (AA,KK,QQ) and just wait for your monsters.

[gulebjorn]

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You should raise with drawings hands such as AK, AQ, AJ or anything of the sort, suited or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
dont raise unless you have class 1 hands (AA,KK,QQ)

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm assuming you mean don't raise PF unless you have a premium hand.
But are you sure this is correct?
We only raise premium hands in normal games because if we get called, it will be by a good hand. So against a random "playable" hand, we should raise with only premium hands.

But in the game he's describing, even A8o or KJ is very likely to get callers with weaker holdings. His opponents could be playing ANY random hand. Doesn't that increase the value of normally marginal pocket cards? So shouldn't you raise more often in such a game?

[aeakos]

Last game I made an opening raise of 4x BB w/AQs and was called by 34o. Just to set the standards.

[aeakos]

Yes, I realize this is what we want, but my question is how to play optimally vs this type of player. I think you answered my question a great deal, but I suppose I was looking for more specific, tactical advice as opposed to general philosophy. Nevertheless, thank you for your reply.

[Ghazban]

The specific response you're looking for is to just bet the hell out of your strong hands. Any time you have a pot equity edge, get as much money as possible into the pot. Take out anything even remotely deceptive in your play (like continuation bets with AK when it misses the flop) and just bet strong when you actually make something. A couple sets or nut flushes will pay for an entire evening's folding of good-looking preflop hands that get lousy flops.