View Full Version : Standard 2+2 line best here?
27offsooot
03-01-2005, 01:09 AM
Villain has some Taggish numbers.
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)
Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO :#A500AF(TAG)/ 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls.
Flop: (7.50 SB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">TAG bets</font>, Hero calls.
Turn: (4.75 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">TAG bets</font>, Hero calls.
River: (6.75 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>,
I was planning on folding to a raise as I believe that JJ on board protected me from bluff raises here. Thoughts?
mr pink
03-01-2005, 01:15 AM
i'm not crazy about the open raise w/ A7o.
post flop is standard weak-ace line
Wired Jokers
03-01-2005, 01:25 AM
Ooooh, with CO (admittedly tight), button, and two blinds to go, I think I'm dumping this pre-flop 98% of time. I will raise it if I have information my opponents are semi-tight, and I've been showing down a few winners recently (good table image).
Post-flop very good.
me454555
03-01-2005, 01:59 AM
What were your reads on button and blinds? If they were on the tight side, I think a raise here is fine
Post flop is very good
DemonDeac
03-01-2005, 02:01 AM
[ QUOTE ]
i'm not crazy about the open raise w/ A7o.
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me neither
adamstewart
03-01-2005, 02:05 AM
Fold preflop.
Otherwise, how 'bout leading the turn? (folding to a raise)
Adam
mr pink
03-01-2005, 03:11 AM
[ QUOTE ]
how 'bout leading the turn? (folding to a raise)
[/ QUOTE ]
nah. if you're behind why charge yourself the most? if you're ahead, let him keep betting his KK, QQ or whatever... the river bet is good because it's confusing as hell for the villain. a lot of the time a pocket pair will call you when you're ahead and when you're behind AK or AQ won't raise cause they think 2-pair or that you slowplayed a monster.
HajiShirazu
03-01-2005, 05:53 AM
I think this is the way to play it. Note that if the guy is a 2+2'er, he probably knows this play and could bluff raise you. But I wouldn't worry about that, these forums aren't all that popular.
Preflop, meh, games are tighter nowadays and you can get the blinds sometimes with this, who knows, maybe it's not so bad.
I'd fold pre
i'd bet out on the flop and if he folds than oh well. It's better than calling down 2 bb while dominated
[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop.
[/ QUOTE ]
Chris Daddy Cool
03-01-2005, 08:06 AM
an old post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=micro&Number=888296&Fo rum=f21&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=2000&Main=888296 &Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=7821&daterange=1&n ewerval=1&newertype=y&olderval=&oldertype=&bodypre v=#Post888296)
CDC, i read your old post. I understand the standard line perfectly, but I disagree. I bet the flop here, (in this exact same situation - obviously if i had a better ace i wouldn't bet the flop) because you don't have the odds to see a showdown.
You are getting only 2-1 to take this recommended line. I'd say you are beat here more than half the time.
27offsooot
03-01-2005, 09:09 AM
I was hoping this wouldn't devolve into a pre-flop debate. But considering that everyone wants me to fold this pre-flop, it's not much of a debate. I will say that CO through the BB were pretty tight. I actually had good relative position at the table with the somewhat looser players on my right. I agree that A7o is not a normal stealing hand for me from MP3, but here I thought I was justified.
post-flop: I thought this was somewhat standard, but really wanted to make sure I was appropriately applying this line and knew why I was doing so.
27offsooot
03-01-2005, 09:12 AM
[ QUOTE ]
You are getting only 2-1 to take this recommended line. I'd say you are beat here more than half the time.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why? Also, after he raises the flop, with say QQ/ KK, do you know then that you are beat?
spydog
03-01-2005, 09:12 AM
I usually raise this preflop if the CO and button are tightish.
Rest of the hand is CDC standard.
27offsooot
03-01-2005, 09:14 AM
Do you think I should have called a river raise here as you intended to in your posted hand? I guess I would respect a river raise from someone at 2/4 more so than 10/20 and is my reasoning somewhat accurate that with the JJ on board, he is less likely to bluff raise.
crunchy1
03-01-2005, 10:01 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I usually raise this preflop if the CO and button are tightish.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's exactly what I was thinking. With tight players behind me I think I have a much better chance of stealing in this position.
First off, the tight players aren't going to disrespect my raise as a steal raise from my position.
Second, since they're tight - they're likely to fold many decent hands. I could see tight players folding many suited hands that they would normally call with because without and money already in the pot, facing 2-cold and the possibility of folds to the raise behind them this isn't the situation they want to call 2-cold with hands like KQs/Axs.
Last, if I do get 3-bet I can really narrow their range of possible holdings.
I'm not sure about the line you took here after his 3-bet. The CDC hand was different than this in that CDC limped preflop UTG. This is different than open raising in MP. Unless the CO thinks you're a total maniac - he has to give you credit for some kind of hand here. I haven't heard any thoughts on check raising the flop. Do you guys think we lose more by folding out his KK/QQ hands versus the times we are able to laydown against a flop 3-bet/turn raise with AK.
[ QUOTE ]
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You are getting only 2-1 to take this recommended line. I'd say you are beat here more than half the time.
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Why? Also, after he raises the flop, with say QQ/ KK, do you know then that you are beat?
[/ QUOTE ]
Why are those the odds? You stand to win about 6 bb,and you have to put in 2 extra bb to win them, so that's about 3-1. I was wrong. You should take the standard line. I've made that error probably the last 5 times i've had that situation, so thank you for your post. Even if the odds are only 2-1 then you should still play. /images/graemlins/confused.gif
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