Underage: Forfeit Your Chips? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

AngusThermopyle

03-01-2005, 06:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
ive always been under the impression that they will let you cashout ur chips if ur unable to give them good ID.
just dont cause any problems when they card you. just say u forgot it and leave, and dont order drinks either

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.
They do have the right to refuse to pay any sort of jackpot (slots, bad-beat, etc) unless you can prove your age. Courts have upheld that in all jurisdictions.

I do not suggest going, but if you insist, and are caught:

No fake ID. Very bad idea.

Set speach, calmly:
"I realize I appear to be underage, but I do not have my ID with me. I will leave as soon as I cash in my chips."
If they try to take your chips:
"Your employee sold me these chips. They did not ask for ID then. If you are now trying to take them away because I cannot produce ID, I think that is fraud. Please let me cash in my chips and leave."
If they insist:
"I will require a receipt signed by the casino manager so I can reclaim them when I return with my ID."

Jurollo

03-01-2005, 06:28 PM

Fake ID = trouble
No ID = trouble
Not 21 = trouble

Not worth it, if you cash anything over $5K they make you fill out tax forms there so buh bye to your winnings. They essentially can take all your chips and send you on your merry way, because you are basically trespassing. If you have a fake ID it could be even worse, depends what kind of mood the floorperson is in.
~Justin

DemonDeac

03-01-2005, 06:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Fake ID = trouble
No ID = trouble
Not 21 = trouble

Not worth it, if you cash anything over $5K they make you fill out tax forms there so buh bye to your winnings. They essentially can take all your chips and send you on your merry way, because you are basically trespassing. If you have a fake ID it could be even worse, depends what kind of mood the floorperson is in.
~Justin

[/ QUOTE ]

theres always a pessimist in these type of threads
someone must work for a casino or something?

Jurollo

03-01-2005, 06:34 PM

Not at all, I am actually only 21, have seen similar things happen to my friends.. just wait it out and play home games until then. Going in underage is a gambling proposition that the house always has a big edge. -EV in poker terms.
~Justin

DemonDeac

03-01-2005, 06:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Not at all, I am actually only 21, have seen similar things happen to my friends.
~Justin

[/ QUOTE ]

can u give some examples cuz im prolly gonna go to borgota during summer break as an under 21. im not really worried about it since i can pass for 21 and even if i do get carded, i plan on saying i forgot my ID at my shore house and will cause no problems if asked to leave and cash out for my ~100,000BB profit /images/graemlins/wink.gif

BottlesOf

03-01-2005, 06:49 PM

And if they make you forfeit your chips, will they give you cash of equal value and make you leave?

/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

bobbyi

03-01-2005, 06:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"Your employee sold me these chips. They did not ask for ID then. If you are now trying to take them away because I cannot produce ID, I think that is fraud. Please let me cash in my chips and leave."

[/ QUOTE ]
That's a really bad idea. What do you hope to accomplish? The floorman is going to cower in fear? They know that they are legally allowed to take your chips for being underage and antagonistic empty threats are certainly not going the way to get on the good side of someone with authority who is trying to take something away from you. Rather than threatening to sue him for fraud, why not just threaten to kick his ass? I'm sure that will be just as effective at getting him to let you cash out.

stanky

03-01-2005, 06:56 PM

Cash plays in AC. Keep a small amount of chips on the table on top of your wad, if it looks like they are going to card you just pocket the wad.

-Pete

P.S. I don't know whether or not they can take your chips

DemonDeac

03-01-2005, 07:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Your employee sold me these chips. They did not ask for ID then. If you are now trying to take them away because I cannot produce ID, I think that is fraud. Please let me cash in my chips and leave."

[/ QUOTE ]
That's a really bad idea. What do you hope to accomplish? The floorman is going to cower in fear? They know that they are legally allowed to take your chips for being underage

[/ QUOTE ]

but the thing is they dont know someone is underage. if u say u forgot ur ID while admitting that you are 21. they cant do anything to say ur not 21 other than u showing them an ID. so in this case, if u say that ur 21 (even if you're not) and say u forgot ur ID at ur house or something, they should let you cash out for ur chips. i dont think they would take the chips of someone who looked 21 but didnt have their ID cuz they might get in legal trouble if that person comes back and proves they are 21, thus making the floorperson look like an a$$.

James Boston

03-01-2005, 07:15 PM

Cops can take beer from you if you're not 21even though you paid for it. I know floormen aren't cops, but I think you forfeit the right to your money once you put it into an illegal venture.

FWIW, I look young, and I've been carded entering casisnos several times. But, I was never carded by a floorman until I sat in a 1-2 NL and turned $150 into just over $1K. If the eye in the sky sees a kid with that many red chips, they're gonna ask questions.

Evan

03-01-2005, 07:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If the eye in the sky sees a kid with that many red chips, they're gonna ask questions.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is wrong.

Sponger15SB

03-01-2005, 07:25 PM

Look, if someone tries to take your chips you rack up and leave.

THEY CAN NOT STOP YOU UNLESS THEY ARE POLICE OFFICERS.

James Boston

03-01-2005, 07:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm wrong or it's wrong. Regardless, please explain.

InchoateHand

03-01-2005, 07:26 PM

This makes zero sense. If you are making a lot of money, that would suggest some degree of age and experience. I don't understand your logic?

Evan

03-01-2005, 07:30 PM

Well, I suppose both are wrong. It is wrong which implies that you are wrong for saying it.

They have no reason to care any more about you being underage if you win or lose. You are not taking their or the house's money by winning.

Also, I've had more than $1k on a table w/o being carded and I promise I look younger than you.

James Boston

03-01-2005, 07:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
THEY CAN NOT STOP YOU UNLESS THEY ARE POLICE OFFICERS.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right, but why would you want to create a situation where they might decide to involve the police. I have no clue how likely that is, but it's not guaranteed not to happen. If that did happen, you're still probably going to lose the money, but now also have the risk of being arrested.

James Boston

03-01-2005, 07:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I've had more than $1k on a table w/o being carded and I promise I look younger than you.

[/ QUOTE ]

So why was I carded? Do you think I'm making it up?

James Boston

03-01-2005, 07:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This makes zero sense. If you are making a lot of money, that would suggest some degree of age and experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if you saw a guy at a poker table, and were asked to guess his age, stack size would be a factor...and I make no sense?

Patrick del Poker Grande

03-01-2005, 07:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Set speach, calmly:
"I realize I appear to be underage, but I do not have my ID with me. I will leave as soon as I cash in my chips."
If they try to take your chips:
"Your employee sold me these chips. They did not ask for ID then. If you are now trying to take them away because I cannot produce ID, I think that is fraud. Please let me cash in my chips and leave."
If they insist:
"I will require a receipt signed by the casino manager so I can reclaim them when I return with my ID."

[/ QUOTE ]
To me, having such a prepared speech screams "I'm underage and I came with this prepared speech as an alternative to a fake ID and an ounce of responsibility." Also, "I've done this before and this is all pre-meditated."

InchoateHand

03-01-2005, 07:35 PM

I have been carded multiple times in a single session, both when I was up, when I was down, also when I ordered a drink, and also when I told the waitress that I didn't want a drink. Go figure.

Evan

03-01-2005, 07:35 PM

I have no idea why you were carded. Maybe the floorman didn't get laid the night before, maybe someone asked him to card you, maybe he just noticed you, maybe his boss was coming in soon so he decided to be extra careful, maybe he did care that you had 2 racks for some reason. But to say that you should expect to be carded if you win a lot as a general rule is incorrect.

I do not think you made it up, but the fact that you immediately defend yourself agaisnt that allegation is pretty funny.

InchoateHand

03-01-2005, 07:36 PM

Well, my logic is cruddy, but so is yours.

obeythekitten

03-01-2005, 07:37 PM

ive seen at least two people taken out of casinos and arrested for being underage in AC.

i will happily request id checks on underage looking players at my table and laugh at you when you lose your real drivers license for 9 months as a result.

this isnt a personal vendetta against underage players, but when one underage person gets caught by the casino control board, it ruins the experience for EVERYONE else that plays there.

the staff is made to spend time and energy on making sure everyone gets carded in the future, and the overall experience suffers. dont be that [censored].

Evan

03-01-2005, 07:39 PM

If you asked me to guess someone's age and that person had a beard it would probably affect my guess too. I do not think that the size of someone's stack has anything to do with how old they appear to be, but you should reread the post form the person who does because your argument makes no sense.

Evan

03-01-2005, 07:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]

i will happily request id checks on underage looking players at my table and laugh at you when you lose your real drivers license for 9 months as a result.

[/ QUOTE ]
That is stupid.

Let's say that I see you having diner with your family one night and you have a beer. After the meal you get in your car and drive home. I decide that I would like to laugh when you get your driver license revoked so I call my buddy that is a cop to have him pull you over and give you a breathalyzer. Make any more sense to you?

James Boston

03-01-2005, 07:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But to say that you should expect to be carded if you win a lot as a general rule is incorrect.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying that that is the only possible explanation for why I was carded. I'm just making a correlation between the two because I've been in several poker rooms on many occasions, and the first time it happened was also the first time I had that much money on the table. I know that proves nothing, but it's not crazy to think the two might be related. Also, I'm basing this on what a friend, who is a card counter, told me. If you're obviously using a betting pattern that indicates card counting, but still aren't playing with much money, you're MUCH less likely to be watched. I know that involves house money, and poker doesn't, but again it points to the fact that casino security looks much closer when big money is involved. They would be stupid not to.

Evan

03-01-2005, 07:47 PM

The fact that your friend is playing against the house makes that scenario 100% different.

DemonDeac

03-01-2005, 07:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
ive seen at least two people taken out of casinos and arrested for being underage in AC.

i will happily request id checks on underage looking players at my table and laugh at you when you lose your real drivers license for 9 months as a result.

this isnt a personal vendetta against underage players, but when one underage person gets caught by the casino control board, it ruins the experience for EVERYONE else that plays there.

the staff is made to spend time and energy on making sure everyone gets carded in the future, and the overall experience suffers. dont be that [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

but theres nothing you can do if someone IS 21 but doesnt look so, so you card him. but then this person has no ID on him. what do u do then? u cant take him money.

shadow29

03-01-2005, 07:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm just making a correlation...

[/ QUOTE ]

And I think what Evan is saying is that correlation does not mean causation.

shadow29

03-01-2005, 07:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]

i will happily request id checks on underage looking players...

[/ QUOTE ]

boy is that gay.

obeythekitten

03-01-2005, 07:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
but theres nothing you can do if someone IS 21 but doesnt look so, so you card him. but then this person has no ID on him. what do u do then? u cant take him money.

[/ QUOTE ]

if youre 21 and drinking withing carrying id then youre just being stupid and should expect to be kicked out of the casino until you DO have possession of your license.

anyone that is doing an activity that is restricted to those of a certain age should expect to have to carry their license on them every time, and shouldnt be suprised when they get kicked out, regardless of how many times they have been there before.

if a bar got raided and you were there without id (legit over 21)...would you be suprised if you got arrested for not having id on you?

Evan

03-01-2005, 07:58 PM

Can you please stop beating a dead horse? No one in this thread will decide whether or not a floor man at the Borg will take your chips or not.

In fact, I'm going to let you in a on a little secret; if you do get carded at the Borg there is like a 95% chance it will happen before you take 3 steps off the escalator to the poker room so you won't have any chips to take anyway.

Evan

03-01-2005, 08:01 PM

That's hardly any stupider than getting pleasure out of others' misfortune, more specifically, others that have done nothing wrong to you.

Swampy

03-01-2005, 08:29 PM

The casino will not take chips that you win in a cash game -- they never belonged to the casino in the first place. They can take any jackpot money. The cops can confiscate your winnings, fine you $1,000 and toss you in the slammer for 6 months (doesn't usually happen, but that's the max for a disorderly persons offense in NJ). If you're under 18, you get processed as a juvenile.

beta1607

03-01-2005, 08:43 PM

"THEY CAN NOT STOP YOU UNLESS THEY ARE POLICE OFFICERS."

This is not true - that is like saying mall security can not detain somebody for shoplifting.

GuyOnTilt

03-01-2005, 08:56 PM

If you're carded while at a table by a floorperson, which is very unlikely, say you forgot your ID in your car/home/whatever and tip the man a couple reds. If you really want to decrease the chances of that happening in the first place, flag down the floor on duty when they're near your table and tip the man for his good work. Be friendly and make him like you, if only on a superficial level, i.e. because it benefits him financially. If you don't want to be carded at the cage, get a chip runner to rack you up and cash you out. Tip them a red too. If you're still super paranoid, get in the habit of selling chips at the table at every chance and keeping mostly cash in front of you. You guys are all being way too paranoid.

GoT

The Armchair

03-01-2005, 10:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"THEY CAN NOT STOP YOU UNLESS THEY ARE POLICE OFFICERS."

This is not true - that is like saying mall security can not detain somebody for shoplifting.

[/ QUOTE ]

In most jurisdictions, mall security cannot detain someone for shoplifting. It's just that because you think they can that you don't make a stink.

Sponger15SB

03-01-2005, 10:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
and laugh at you when you lose your real drivers license for 9 months as a result.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this isnt a personal vendetta against underage players

[/ QUOTE ]

Just stop posting on this board and kill yourself.

This is a personal vendetta against you.

Sponger15SB

03-01-2005, 10:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"THEY CAN NOT STOP YOU UNLESS THEY ARE POLICE OFFICERS."

This is not true - that is like saying mall security can not detain somebody for shoplifting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh. So sad, so sad. Obviously, this is not true. If mall security tried to detain me with force I would either 1) fight back w/ extreme prejudice /images/graemlins/grin.gif 2) press charges

BTW if anyone gets stopped by the actual police and you are asked your age absoutely DO NOT LIE TO THEM. If you are honest, you might get let go right there or be treated better in court. But if you lie to them not only will you get in trouble for doing that, but they will also be more likely to punish you harder.

I know so many people who have been stopped with alcohol in Santa Barbara and then tell the cops they are 21, and then get busted for falsifying information (is that what it is called?) along with an MIP and instead of being able to take some AA classes and have everything reduced to an infraction for disturbing the peace, they lose their license for a year.

PokerFink

03-01-2005, 11:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
BTW if anyone gets stopped by the actual police and you are asked your age absoutely DO NOT LIE TO THEM. If you are honest, you might get let go right there or be treated better in court. But if you lie to them not only will you get in trouble for doing that, but they will also be more likely to punish you harder.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is fantastic advice, especially for anyone that gets caught drinking underage. I haven't gotten pegged for drinking, but I can't count how many of my friends have, and the ones that were honest, cooperated and just took their penalty like a man got off considerbly easier than the ones that tried to fight it or deny it.
* * *
As for my original post, thanks to everyone for the comments. It seems the consensus is that while they can take your chips, if you are civil, they probably won't. Still, I doubt I'm going to risk it. Another year at TStone for me.

I look forward to meeting the AC 2+2 contingent in December. Thanks again.

TheMetetron

03-02-2005, 06:05 AM

Just to clear something up, mall security very much can detain you for shoplifting in almost every jurisdiction. They don't do it very often as a policy by their scared ass employers, but they legally could in most places (and they don't even necessarily need to see all of the elements of a shoplift). A store's retail loss prevention agents, on the other hand, will definitely not only detain you, but likely arrest you, for shoplifting.

As far as casinos, if they wanted to bother, they could legally detain/arrest you for underage gambling, but I doubt most would bother and/or are allowed to as a policy of their employer.

Shillx

03-02-2005, 06:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ive seen at least two people taken out of casinos and arrested for being underage in AC.

i will happily request id checks on underage looking players at my table and laugh at you when you lose your real drivers license for 9 months as a result.

this isnt a personal vendetta against underage players, but when one underage person gets caught by the casino control board, it ruins the experience for EVERYONE else that plays there.

the staff is made to spend time and energy on making sure everyone gets carded in the future, and the overall experience suffers. dont be that [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

but theres nothing you can do if someone IS 21 but doesnt look so, so you card him. but then this person has no ID on him. what do u do then? u cant take him money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh. In the state of Arizona they got around this by making it illigal to not have you ID on you at all times. So if you get carded and can't present ID, it is just as bad as being underage with a fake (ie. you are using someone's ID that is real but isn't yourself). Let's say that a cop pulls you over for a speeding violation and you don't have your driver's lisence on you, eventhough you actually have one. Can you pull the "sorry occifer I forgot my ID" line? I don't think so.

Brad

TheNoodleMan

03-02-2005, 10:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If the eye in the sky sees a kid with that many red chips, they're gonna ask questions.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ooooh! RED CHIPS! sorry, that is just too damn funny. I'm sure that the red chips are the biggest concern of the eye in the sky.

Jaquen H'gar

03-07-2005, 03:32 PM

[quote
Ugh. So sad, so sad. Obviously, this is not true. If mall security tried to detain me with force I would either 1) fight back w/ extreme prejudice /images/graemlins/grin.gif 2) press charges

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to come in from left field. You're arguing under the assumption you are innocent (of shoplifting or being underage). That has nothing to do with the discussion in hand. The discussion in hand is if you are guilty.

If you are shoplifting and you resist with extreme predjudice, you can add aggravated assault to your charges.

Casino security can most assuredly hold you against your will WHILE awaiting the arrival of the police or gaming agents. There are many legal precedents for this. Your ONLY defense is if you are innocent. Then you have legal standings for a lawsuit which will likely be settled in the 10k amount based on previous cases. If you aren't innocent (of cheating/stealing/being underage/various crimes in a casino) then you have no legal standing to object to being held for the authorities. The casino goons are performing a citizen's arrest. If you are guilty, they are legally entitled, as is any other citizen, of detaining you.

Casino and mall security don't really want to detain you but they will. They would rather intimidate you into voluntarily staying; that way, if they are wrong, you have no legal basis for action.

The proper response, if you're underage and are carded while gambing, is to reply politiely, "My ID is in my car/hotel room. Would you like me to get it for you?" If they say yes, pocket your chips and leave with them. Come back on a different shift to cash out or have a friend do it. Don't ever admit you are underage. They may strongly suspect it but by being nice/polite and volunteering to go get the ID, there will be some doubt, enough not to become forceful with you. If you admit it, they will most certainly confiscate your chips and kick you to the curb. Not so much because they want your money but because they want to punish you so you won't come back and because if they allow you to leave with your winnings after knowing you are a minor, they are complicit in underage gambling.

"Bribing" the floorperson as someone suggested is not likely to work for the simple reason that if the casino is busted by allowing you to gamble, they will pay a fine of 10-20k and the floorperson will pay the price. His job ain't worth a $10 tip. Most underage gamblers are busted by either security at the door, a floorperson who calls in security, or a gaming agent (undercover or not) who is walking through the casino and informs the casino to check your ID. If the latter happens, the casino will most definitely be fined, and the casino manager will be standing in front of the gaming commission to explain why the gaming agents are having to do the job of the casino's security guards. Yes, it will be just a 10-20k slap on the wrist but the casino manager will be embarrassed/pissed and the sh%t rolls downhill to the floorpeople and security.

The transcripts of the Nevada, New Jersey, and Mississippi Gaming Commission Hearings can be found online. I suggest many of the readers here peruse them. It's quite educational and entertaining and many of these answers can be found there including fine amounts for casinos in the example above.

turnipmonster

03-07-2005, 04:00 PM

chip runners? on the east coast? never.

--turnipmonster

wickedgoodtrader

03-07-2005, 04:24 PM

I was busted being under age. They took my winnings, and almost my buyin.. they ended up giving my buy-in back. Then they took me upstairs.. put me in a room with shackles on da bench and tied me up. Then they called up state police and investigators. Sat tied up for 4 hours before they showed up. Ended up having to goto court multiple times, pay court fees, and was banned from the casinos for 1 year even though I was now of age. I'd say I got of fairly ez.. I did have a fake id and had been drinkin.. no drinks in the casino but before hand. All they charged my with was under age gambling. However I didn't do anythign about it for a while and they put a warrant out for my arrest and when I got pulled over they put me in da pen. Then some young drunk dude in the pen thought it would be funny to throw orange peels at me while I was trying to sleep and we had to scrap. I threw him and he tripped over the toilet... and hurt himself. He kinda just layed there and passed out after that. The guards came over after they heard the noise but everyone said he was just drunk and fell over the toilet himself. All-in all it was a good experience. So I'd say if you thinkin bout underage gamblin.. go for it.

toots

03-07-2005, 04:35 PM

Very nice post.

I think there are several things to consider:

1) Just because you want to do something doesn't make it right or even a good idea

2) Just because someone else did it, doesn't make it right or even a good idea

3) When you go into a casino underage, you are not only putting yourself at risk, you are to a degree putting the casino at risk. You can expect them to act accordingly.

4) The more this kind of nonsense goes on, the worse the experience becomes for everyone involved.

Having said that, I also understand enough about neurophysiology to understand that the 18 year old brain just can't deal with the real sort of impulse control and forethought to properly deal with these issues. That's largely why people under 21 are so notorious for doing stupid things, and in turn, why 21 is such a magic number.

PokerFink

03-07-2005, 04:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Having said that, I also understand enough about neurophysiology to understand that the 18 year old brain just can't deal with the real sort of impulse control and forethought to properly deal with these issues. That's largely why people under 21 are so notorious for doing stupid things, and in turn, why 21 is such a magic number.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does this make me a very mature 20 year old, because I had the forethought to get advice, and the impulse control to not go to AC for the next nine months until I'm legal? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

toots

03-07-2005, 05:44 PM

Perhaps I was a bit more pedantically-douchebaggy in my last post than usual, or even intended, but let me try this:

I think a lot of us can look back on our late teens or even early 20s and recall a lot of things we did that were A) illegal; B) dangerous; C) incredibly stupid. Most of us survived them, but a few didn't. Mainly, it's the ones who survived it in some form who shiver over what could have been.

At that point, this sort of maternal/paternal urge kicks in to try to find some way to convince the next generation not to do stupid things. Ultimately, we will be no more successful than any past generation, and ultimately, many of us will look like hypocrites for even trying. Well, you know, you'll be ahead wear-and-tear wise if you learn from the mistakes of others rather than going after first hand proof.

So, I understand that for many of you, anyone telling you not to do those things is as big a waste of time as it was when people were telling me that stuff. Here's the important part: They were right; I was wrong. I was also lucky. The ones warning me were not taking my luck as a given.

To a degree, any of us who feel the urge to step up and say "Don't do it" might be better served by standing back and letting natural selection take its course. And, of course, the government cashes in on this by conveniently making military service to those young enough to not know better.

Now, going to a casino underage may seem pretty minor compared to some of other other really stupid things you could do underage (drinking, drug use, reckless driving, unsupervised firearm ownership and use).

Then again, lots of bad habits are established in those years: drug and alcohol addition, smoking, violent behaviors. Who knows? You could be setting yourself up to become a degenerate gambler by walking into the casino before you have the emotional horsepower to deal with it.

Heck, most of the "adults" I've met have a hard time dealing with acting maturely in a casino, and I include myself in that.

And, of course, if the casinos are overrun by underage kids looking to try out for the WPT, especially in the current socio-political climate, people might just decide to crack down on the whole idea of legalized gambling again, in which case, thanks a farkin' lot for ruining it for everybody.

And on a more personal note, if you can actually win, that's kind of a good thing, but there are so many fish in the casino, that I find it very difficult to believe that every 20 year old Phil Ivey wannabe is actually a net-positive player.

Well, if I'm dragging a big pot that contains the former contents of some adult's life savings, at least it was an informed, adult decision on the part of the other player. (Or theoretically, at least). If I take away some kid's college tuition, the long term effects can be quite drastic, and it was not, by definition, an act between consenting adults.

OrangeCat

03-07-2005, 05:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
can the casino take your chips from you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely. Casino chips belong to the casino. The fact that you exchanged cash for chips does not make them your chips. The casino has the right to confiscate chips from players. If they take your chips, for whatever reason, all you can do is ask for a receipt.

If you are caught gambling underage in a casino, consider yourself lucky to get away with only the loss of your chips.

dlk9s

03-07-2005, 05:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Set speach, calmly:
"I realize I appear to be underage, but I do not have my ID with me. I will leave as soon as I cash in my chips."
If they try to take your chips:
"Your employee sold me these chips. They did not ask for ID then. If you are now trying to take them away because I cannot produce ID, I think that is fraud. Please let me cash in my chips and leave."
If they insist:
"I will require a receipt signed by the casino manager so I can reclaim them when I return with my ID."

[/ QUOTE ]
To me, having such a prepared speech screams "I'm underage and I came with this prepared speech as an alternative to a fake ID and an ounce of responsibility." Also, "I've done this before and this is all pre-meditated."

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly. If I was underage and in that situation, I would just act as if being asked for id were a perfectly legit request and actually reach into my pocket/wallet for my id. Of course, it won't be there, but I would act as if I expected it to be there, say I must've left it at home/in the car/whatever, and play ignorant, asking if that's a problem.

I've found that if I play dumb, but nice and upbeat, even if there is a negative consequence, that consequence isn't usually as bad as it might be otherwise.

PokerFink

03-07-2005, 06:23 PM

Toots, I totally agree with everything you said. As adults/parents, it's tough watching kids make the same dumb mistakes you made.

Personally, I think the best way for adults to handle dangerous activities, especially driving, drinking and gambling, is to show them how to do it responsibly. This is common in driving, due to driving lessons, drivers ED classes, etc. But it is rare to see adults teaching their teens proper ways to drink and gamble. There are proper ways to do both that will minimize the risk/danger while maximizing the fun, and I wish more parents would teach their kids these proper ways instead of simply saying "don't do it" and letting the kids find out the hard way.

My question about being a mature 20 year old was sort of half joking, half rhetorical. I do happen to be quite mature for my age (even if I don't look it), and I'm well aware of it.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Wow... I'm hijacking my own thread. /images/graemlins/grin.gif