Whole session down the tubes in one hand.

[krazyace5]

This one crushed me. When I reraised to $140 I had meant to go all in, not that it mattered much. When would you have slowed down here? The $100 reraise? Would you of slowed down?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB ($57.8)
UTG ($160.45)
MP ($62.1)
CO ($10.1)
Button ($182.36)
Hero ($183.8)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls $1, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $2</font>, Hero calls $1.50, BB calls $1, UTG calls $1.

Flop: ($8) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($8) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $1</font>, Button calls $1, Hero calls $1, BB folds.

River: ($11) K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $12</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $30</font>, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $60</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $100</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $140</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $157.45 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls $17.45.

Final Pot: $325.90

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Js Jd (full house, jacks full of eights).
UTG has 8d 8h (four of a kind, eights).
Outcome: UTG wins $325.90. </font>

[Dov]

There was nothing you could do here.

I just had the same thing happen to me today about 2 hours ago.

Started with TT, the board comes T55. Villain shows me quad fives after we both slow played to the river.

That's just the way it goes sometimes.

Dov

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
There was nothing you could do here.

I just had the same thing happen to me today about 2 hours ago.

Started with TT, the board comes T55. Villain shows me quad fives after we both slow played to the river.

That's just the way it goes sometimes.

Dov

[/ QUOTE ]
I just don't think this is true. Please tell me a hand that villain could have which you beat that he will call your river re-raise with. If you can't think of one (and I can't) then don't make it. Just call his raise on the river.

[sourbeaver]

That's a nasty beat but you can't blame yourself here, it's quite impossible to find a reason to lay this down, IMHO.

EDIT : the only way you could save money would be to not keep up with the raising war, but I don't know if I could settle here.

[schwza]

you should definitely go nuts on the river here. villain will go equally nuts with A8 or worse.

[Benal]

Exactly.. A8 or K8 would be played almost the same way.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Even if villain would back his stack on the river with A8 (or more likely K8 or 85 here) who plays those UTG?

[kongo_totte]

Call his 4-raise to $100. Points could be made for just calling his re-raise to $30, but I don't think I could do it. The bare factor that Party fish make weird plays often makes me 3-raise. After his 4-raise, I strongly fear I'm beat, but I don't muck with the odds being layed.

[tbach24]

If the rest of the board was T55(4A), I can see TT being the best hand a lot on an all-in against an average opponent.

[jonnyUCB]

Barring reads you really can't make this laydown against an average PP player. Though seeing your stack sizes calls into question how you could not have a read seeing as you both must have played quite some time together.

I would not be able to lay it down but the question is how much goes in on the river. The only real limpable hand from UTG you beat here is 55 that would play it that hard (and rarely would that hand stick in the reraise with such a small FB). Do you put the villian on the type of player that limps with 8Ks, 8Js from utg?

Also, in a 6 handed game it might be a bit passive to flatcall with such a good hand. Personally I like knowing where I stand by making an aggressive move preflop though it can lead to some sticky situations on the flop (but by then i usually know where i stand). Don't know if that would've helped in this specific hand but you would be able to take villian off hands like 8J and 8K (hands he possibly has since he's called a min raise preflop which closes the betting, which any sensible player would do with any two cards).

What it comes down to at the river: it's a matter of deciding what hands you beat when u put in those reraises and this depends on your read of the player. I had a similar situation on a 288K3 board holding 22 and a player with 8K didn't play the reraise war with me fearing KK.. is this the type of player you're playing against? If so, your actions should reflect this analysis.

Sorry so wordy but your post was lacking what i feel is the only pertinent information in being able to slow down.

[jonnyUCB]

In OP's hand? 8Ks, 8Js, 55. The OPs post lacks any real reads on the villian (see my post below).

[Dov]

Actually it was T553Q.

with 4 to a flush.

There were a lot of hands he could have had.

The only way I slow down is if I actually see his cards and they beat me.

[theredpill5]

Who plays A 8 , UTG , TWP ? Nearly 85 % of the players that I play with. No joke. This is just one of those hands I probably would have played it the same way and lost my whole stack.

[jonnyUCB]

[ QUOTE ]
Who plays A 8 , UTG , TWP ? Nearly 85 % of the players that I play with. No joke.

[/ QUOTE ]

The more important issue, imho, is who plays A8 on the river in this way? Is the villian in the OP in the 85% category? Is he the type to go broke when he hits trips? Is he the type that limps 8K 8J utg (hands hero does in fact beat and villian is much more likely to play this way)?

[TheWorstPlayer]

The EV from the raise to $60 is $30 * P(he calls with worse hand) - $30 * P(he calls with better hand). This is ignoring the fact that you are re-opening the betting and if you are willing to call when he raises again, you could lose even more (which actually happened, but let's ignore it for the moment). The only better hands here are 88 and KK. The only worse hands that he could call with are A8, K8, J8, 85, 55. I think the chances that he limps UTG with A8, K8, J8, 85 are pretty small. He would probably limp 55, but when he hits his five on the turn, he would probably get excited about it, which he doesn't in this hand. The chances that he would limp KK UTG are not that great, and if he did, he would probably re-raise the min-raise preflop, but you certainly do see people slowplaying KK a fair amount. 88 obviously fits perfectly with the way he played the hand, but there is only one combination of 88, so that is not that likely. So, you just have to weigh everything together and see what is more likely - the probability that he has KK or 88 and that the action would go that way with KK/88, or the probability that he has A8/J8/K8/85/55 and that the action would go that way with each hand. Personally, I think it is close, but I could see myself not making the $60 raise because of the thought that he wouldn't call a re-raise with too many hands that he would play UTG. I really think we can narrow his holding almost entired to KK/88/55 with KK being least likely from his preflop play. Maybe we can add A8s but I don't think that hand is calling a re-raise on the river and I think he would have been more active before the river with open trips. Same goes for 55. So most likely hands really seem to be KK/88 and I wouldn't re-raise.