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09-15-2002, 01:46 AM
I am looking to improve my value betting on the river.

To borrow from Mr Brier: The situation leading up to the question may not be fully correct, but lets assume its reasonable...

Here is an example. Seven handed. A loose goose (LG) but semi knowledgable player raises too many hands preflop. You three bet him on the button with KQs and a complete calling station (CS) calls two cold from the blinds. The flop comes KJX rainbow. CS checks. LG bets. You raise. Turn is rag. Check, check, u bet. Call, Call. River is a J. Board is rainbow. Check, check. What do you do? Remember you are looking for every LONG run opportunity to gain bets on the river. Results of this one hand are not so important as how you feel in 100 of these situations.

I also welcome any other scenarios/help people may want to offer...

Thanks and later.

Jeffage
09-15-2002, 01:52 AM
Generally bet in this spot. The typical player doesn't checkraise the river enough to stop u from valuebetting in these spots. If he had a jack he'd be likely to bet it, afraid you'd check. In general, you will probably be called by at least one worse hand or no one will call. This can add up to significant income. On this hand, however...know your opponent. Is he one to back off with AK in this spot or would he be the type to reraise and then lead the turn. If he would do this, ur likely ahead bc he did not do so. If he may not, and may just check call with the AK (most would be aggressive, but some wouldn't), then ur value bet might not have as much value as u think.

Jeff

Dynasty
09-15-2002, 02:38 AM
That's an easy river bet with top pair/second best kicker. If you haven't been betting in that spot, you've been leaving truckloads of chips on the table.

It would only be a difficult decision if you had QQ or TT.

Ginogino
09-15-2002, 03:24 PM
Most players (and, sorry to say, this includes me) are hesitant to attempt a checkraise on the river, since it seems that 90% of the time everybody checks. From your opponent's point of view, how likely is it that you will bet if checked into? Putting yourself in his position, and assume you hold a Jx (so the river has just hit you with trip J's), would you risk the river being checked out? Well, he's got the same tough choice -- assuming he has a hand to beat you with.

From your opponent's point of view -- if he had the nuts it would be worth going for the checkraise if he could be sure you would bet 50% of the time. Without the nuts, he faces the problem of being re-raised, so he might want to be sure that you would bet 2/3 of the time (I'm not sure of the exact percentage, and it might vary depending on the likelihood his hand would hold up). Since, based on his betting, he doesn't have KK or JJ, or even KJ, how can he avoid betting the river?

09-16-2002, 01:37 AM
OK - I did/generally do bet the river in this spot, but on this occasion I bet and was check raised. I agree it is/was right to do so. Just making sure I didn't get results oriented.

Now then - How many lay the KQ down to the check raise? Obviously it depends on your opponent, but lets assume you just sat down and don't have a read.