Leave your emotions at the door

[Mikey]

I have a little problem, and it's emotion. I still continue to get emotional about this game. I'm not saying that I go on tilt, but I end up yelling at my computer screen when i get outdrawn at 15 to 1 shots, 23 to 1 shots, backdoored, bad beats. But I get emotional when I win too, I'm joyfull, I'm sociable, I'm happy. I'm not saying that i go on tilt but I just get an increased heart rate when i lose, you know things like that.

How do you leave your emotions at the door?
What steps can you take to completely neutralize yourself from the emotions of the game?
Does it just come with experience and a great understanding of the game?


I'm sure when (some) of you get up off from your session with a loss, you are a little annoyed, but when you win you have a little pepper in your step.

-I WANT TO LOSE ALL EMOTION! HOW DO I DO IT?!?!

-IF YOU HAVE TAKEN CARE OF THIS PROBLEM, HOW HAVE YOU DONE IT??!!!

[Dynasty]

I WANT TO LOSE ALL EMOTION! HOW DO I DO IT?!?!

Transfer your conciousness into a computer.

[Jedi Poker]

Association means seeing things and events thru your own eyes, like what you're doing now as you are reading these words in the monitor that you have right in front of you. You point to yourself as you now say to yourself, "Yes, I am reading this post now".
Dissociation means to step out of an event and seeing yourself over there sitting in your chair, reading this post. By doing this, you have become a detached observer of yourself. Pointing at that other you over there, you say to yourself, "There I am. Reading Jedi's post about association and dissociation. Gee, his hair (that "other you's" hair, not Jedi's) sure looks funny!".
For most people, when they're perceiving an event associated, in other words, when they are literally inside an event, they will tend to feel the emotions that come with the event. When they're dissociated, their emotions will tend to get neutralized because, now, they have become detached from the event, like an objective "fly on the wall". Having an "eagle's eye view", a "worm's eye view" is a way many people have described the act of being dissociated.
The basic strategy for neutralizing negative emotions (anger, frustration, anxiety, panic, regret, etc.) during losing streaks and everytime you've just been dealt a bad beat is to dissociate once this happens. From a safe distance, see yourself over there inside that horror movie. But don't actually be in that horror movie over there.

[HDPM]

Jedi, are you the guy who used to post sometimes about NLP and getting trained in NLP? If so, I think NLP has some very helpful stuff but am wondering about its limits. I don't know this because I haven't worked with it a lot and have not studied it a lot. But my impression is that at some point the techniques won't go any further and some other process must be used, i.e. Feeney's poker player in therapy. Or in other words, can these techniques bring you into that state of poker peacce Tommy Angelo seems to have? Correct me if I'm wrong or under-informed here.

[bernie]

it comes with experience and undrstanding of the game...
once you accept the fact that you want them to call with longshots, realize theyre going to hit them sometime...

but once youve had pretty much every hand cracked does it really suprise you at times when you get bit? one thing to try, play to the showdown...sound simple? think about it. until the pot is pushed to you, its not yours. also, if someone else sucks out on ya, could they have had a better hand that beat ya anyways, other than just looking at their results. i tend not to get overexcited when i win a pot because i know the cards could turn at any time. i may not get another hand to play for an hour or so. maybe im just a little too jaded. but my heart still pumps a little if the pot is big.

knowing and believing that bad play will benefit you, even when theyre hitting everything can be a test of patience. i was on a table a couple nights ago, and one of the worst players was on a roll. for 3 1/2 hours. she hit everything that moved...here's an example...

i limp EP with 99, she calls behind along with maybe 1 other and a blind...

flop 6 6 4 2 tone...

i bet, she calls, folded to guy on my right who raises all in, i 3 bet. she cold calls here...

turn Q i bet, she calls

river blank....flush never hit

checked....she had Q3 os, no draw on the flop...and this is how it went. if she had any part of the flop, even needing a runner, shed stay. and shed hit.

the point is, you have to sometimes wait them out. i busted out this session, but got on a table with her the next night. and lo and behold, she wasnt hitting as much. but she sure gave action...

sometimes you gotta 'chum' the waters.
but a bad session of harsh beats can wear on ya. but again, knowing that you want them to play that way and 'believing' that is a key i think.

one last thing...

bankroll may be a psych/factor. if your playing on a limited roll it may affect you more emotionally because the loss is bigger to you than if you had a bigger roll behind it. i noticed this in my own play when i was building a roll. might be worth checking into...

some ideas...

b

[Jedi Poker]

The mental state that Tommy Angelo has described is what athletes call being "in the zone". Mihalyi Csickszentmihalyi calls it "flow". Charles Garfield calls it "peak performance". James Loehr calls it "Ideal Performance State". Tony Robbins calls it "Personal Power". Arnold Palmer called it "being in a cocoon". Stu Ungar called it "being in stroke". Mental state management and manipulation is the hallmark of NLP. And yes, the mental state that Tommy (and many others) has described can be bottled. That is, if he has accessed it even once in his whole entire life, with NLP techniques like anchoring, circle of excellence, collapsing anchors, sliding anchors, and others, he can access it over and over and over again reliably, as he sees fit. Whether or not he can access and re-access it with NLP is not the issue. The real issue becomes whether he wants to and whether he judges it to be the optimal state to be in in order to accomplish a given specific task.
The player who has never been "in the zone" or who thinks he's never experienced it can be taught to access it consistently using new behavior generators, micro-modelling, bridging, post-hypnotic suggestions and other NLP techniques.
Regarding John Feeney's "poker player in therapy". The guy basically has two general problems. One very simple the other much more complex. The first problem is straight out stimulus-response. The guy takes a bad beat(stimulus), then freaks out(response). The guy has his opponent look at him a certain way(stimulus) then he wants to "kill him"(response). These largely automatic behaviors can be neutralized in a matter of minutes using swish patterns, visual squashes, collapsing anchors and others.
But the complex problem, namely "low self-esteem", is the real problem in that if it is not dealt with effectively, the stimulus-response changes that the techniques I mentioned in the previous paragraph will have created will cease to stick once a few months have passed. In other words, he will regress back to the old stimulus-response patterns that had led him to therapy!
The Meta-Model, Sleight of Mouth Patterns, Reframing, and the Milton Model can be used to linguistically destabilize the belief systems (complex equivalences, modal operators, cause and effects) that have created the problem player's low self-esteem. Non-linguistic techniques like The Autobiography, recursive swishes, core transformation, time-line reimprinting, parental time-line reimprinting, and others can be used to deal with it in other ways. And fixing self-esteem problems takes much longer than simple stimulus-response problems - as much as 5 one hour sessions rather than just a few minutes!

[Al Schoonmaker]

You asked: "What steps can you take to completely neutralize yourself from the emotions of the game?"
There is only one possible answer. You can't do it. In addition, you would not want to do it. To get the kick of winning, you have to pay the price of losing. Instead of trying to eliminate emotions, control their negative effects.
About a year ago I wrote a three part series for Poker Digest called "Destructive emotions." If anyone wants a copy, just contact me at alanschoonmaker@hotmail.com.
The third part of the series dealt with controlling emotions.I don't have space for all of it, but here is a condensed version.
DON'T KID YOURSELF.
As Roy Cooke put it: "Only in love do I see more self-denial, lack of honesty with oneself, and bad decisions based on emotion than at poker."
KEEP GOOD RECORDS.
Good records will reduce your self-denial and improve your perspective about bad beats and losing streaks. You can't kid yourself about your results if your records clearly state them, and you can regard any win or loss as just a small part of your long term results.
PLAY THE RIGHT LIMITS.
You probably have a "comfort zone," the limits that give you the right mix of stimulation and relaxation. At lower limits you may be bored by both the stakes and the players' limitations, which may make you play sloppily.
At higher limits you will probably feel scared. You may become tentative and timid, checking when you should bet, calling when you should raise, and folding when you are bluffed. The obvious solution is to play only in your comfort zone. Remember, poker is a game, and games are played for pleasure. You can't enjoy being bored or scared, and you certainly won't enjoy playing poorly and losing.
ACCEPT THE GAME AS IT IS.
Lots of emotional reactions, especially anger, come from a refusal to accept the game as it is. People waste their time complaining about things they can't change such as bad beats, losing streaks, foolish players, and dealers' mistakes.
To play your best you must accept the game as it is, including everything you dislike about it. Instead of worrying about things you can't change, accept them and focus your attention on the only thing you can control, your own play.
DEPERSONALIZE CONFLICT.
One of the things you must accept is that conflicts are not personal. If you personalize conflicts, you may become so vengeful that you destroy yourself. Depersonalizing conflicts also increases your freedom. It lets you attack weaker players and use deceptive tactics without feeling guilty or embarrassed. You aren't a rotten SOB who is out to hurt anyone; it's just the way the game is played.
TAKE A WALK, CHANGE GAMES, OR GO HOME.
If you see or even suspect that you're getting emotional, stop playing immediately. First, take a walk to analyze how well you are playing and the effects (if any) of your emotions. Then decide whether you have a realistic chance to beat this game. Note the word "realistic." The more emotional you are, the less realistic you will be. If you even suspect that you're "losing it,"change games or go home.
It is especially difficult to leave a "great game." You don't want to miss the excitement, which is exactly why you must be very cautious. If you feel your heart pumping and hate the thought of leaving, beware. Remember, most great games are dangerous. That action makes your swings larger even if you are playing your "A" game. If you add the dangers of playing emotionally, your risks become so great that you should definitely change games or go home. If you stay in this "great game," you may lose so much that you go completely on tilt and destroy your bankroll.
REMEMBER YOUR "GOOD BEATS."
A "good beat" occurs when you are the lucky idiot who misplays his hand, catches a miracle card, and wins a large pot. We hear bad beat stories all the time, but hardly anyone tells about their good beats. Why?
Because a bad beat story gives us an excuse for losing, and we want to protect our egos. But a good beat story raises doubts about our skill: We won because we were lucky, not because we played well. So we bore our friends with bad beat stories and hardly ever tell the other kind. (I reported a hand I grossly misplayed, but won with a miracle card.)
But you know you've had your share of good beats. You may not want to remember them, but that's a mistake. If you think only of your bad beats, you will see yourself as unlucky, which can arouse several destructive emotions.
SAY A "MANTRA."
No matter how well you play, bad beats and losing streaks are inevitable. When I'm feeling angry or sorry for myself, I quietly say a little "mantra:" "If the game lasts long enough, I will win, maybe not tonight or this week or this month, but, sooner or later, I will be ahead."
It has always been true, and it always will be true as long as I do two things: (1) Play well and (2) select the right games. But I won't do either of them if I don't control my emotions.
Please forgive my wordiness. I hope this helps.
Al

[Seven]

I think I know what you mean. Eventually I get very 'relaxed' at the table. You have to imagine that it's a matter of temperament and since I don't know you very well, I don't know if you'll know what I mean when I describe it but here goes.

I'm not really interested in talking to people other than maybe some rote one-liners. I'm not thinking about anything other than the cards. There are no daily concerns. Imagine someone in the middle of a game of chess and they're sitting there evaluating their position. They wouldn't really carry on a long conversation--and I don't mean because in tournaments you can't talk while playing--I mean they just wouldn't be interested.

I once told someone that me and another player we know quite often just get into this zone where we sit there, play tight, and win money. And we really "don't care". Or more precisely, we're unconcerned with anything.

Good luck interpreting all of this.

[scalf]

you can always get your ak-7 out and blast that sob to hell who drew out on you...i guarantee the sorry bastard won.t give you any more bad beats with this technique...gl /forums/images/icons/grin.gif /forums/images/icons/confused.gif

[Mikey]

honestly this must happen to you.....don't you ever want to reach over and smack the guy in the face who outdrew you on a longshot. Ohh god, it eats my stomach up when that happens, I just want to reach over and chuck a chip inbetween his eyes and call him every name I can think of in the book.

[Mikey]

A little summary that I've learned from you guys when making this post and getting back great info from you guys.

Jedi Poker, EXCELLENT POINT!! Disassociation!! I never even thought of it that way, not only does it work well in Poker but it works well in life too when you have to handle an emotional situation. Other feedback I recieved which I thought was also helpful is this:(Bernie) BANKROLL!!!!! Yes you are right bankroll does play a factor in the game you are playing, sometimes when you are playing a bit bigger limit than you are accustomed too, it tends to make you more emotional and doesn't make you carry out the actions that you should for instance check when you should bet, or even bet when you should check. A.S. brings up good points too which are all very usefull, I'm not going to mention them here, check out his post.
Thank you guys. Nice posts!!

[hutz]

The first couple of months I played online, I had the same problems you describe. At home, it's so much easier, outside of constraints of society (i.e., in a card room), to yell, scream, curse, pound your fist on the table, etc., when you suffer a beat. I find myself in the great completely emotionless zone while playing in a B&M casino, so I know I have it in me to be that way at home. At worst, I now mutter "jackass" under my breath when I'm drawn out on, remind myself that the chasers will go broke while I'll still be playing in six months, and then move on to the next hand with a clear mind.

Finally, you might want to purchase and read/re-read "Zen and the Art of Poker" by Wayno Phillips. It helped me a lot.