wtf... what do you guys do here?

[SCfuji]

Party 25NL Full Ring

I have the most solid image at the table and my raises and bets are getting enormous respect. Odd for a Party 25 table I think, but the BB doesn't seem to notice or care.

Stacks: Hero 36/Villain 18

3 folds, Hero raises to $2 with the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4 folds, BB calls $1.5

2 to the flop for $4.25
Stacks: Hero 34/Villain 16

Flop: 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif A /images/graemlins/spade.gif 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

BB pushes for $16, Hero ?????????????????????

My devil on my right shoulder was yanking my greed mechanism in my brain and was telling me to call. What the heck do you do here? I have $2 invested in here and this board is DRAWLESS. Do most of you guys pass in this situation or do you insta-call?

[lawpoker]

what do you hold?

[SCfuji]

sorry, i was so confused that i forgot to include my hand. original post changed. thank you.

[TrailofTears]

Call in an instant.

[Caruso329]

Call 2daMAXX!

[casmells]

could go either way depending on reads.
At PP25, I call and expect to be shown AQ, AJ, A10 or even A-junk. Its so hard to tell at these tables. If this player had shown me he was solid, then i would fold.

[SCfuji]

can you explain why? i folded this because i felt like he was sucker move-of-honering me. do you feel that these party fish will tend to check raise me with a strong hand instead of moving right in so my hand was most likely good?

[SCfuji]

so -unless- i had a specific read on him i should just take him for a party fish and take his $.

[FlFishOn]

The less I know about the BB the faster I call.

[SCfuji]

i must say i got owned in this hand. anybody's significant other have a pair of high heels to match my sissy dress?

[djoyce003]

You didn't get owned that badly. There are a lot of times this clown will have a raggedy two pair or a set as well. At the time you didn't know he was an idiot...and it's a marginal call. Slightly +EV probably to call here, but only slightly I think. You can almost always find a better spot here to get your money in....hell i have them raising my nut flush all the time on party, so unless I know the guy sucks, I go ahead and fold this at least some of the time.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
You didn't get owned that badly. There are a lot of times this clown will have a raggedy two pair or a set as well. At the time you didn't know he was an idiot...and it's a marginal call. Slightly +EV probably to call here, but only slightly I think. You can almost always find a better spot here to get your money in....hell i have them raising my nut flush all the time on party, so unless I know the guy sucks, I go ahead and fold this at least some of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is nuts. First of all, there is no 'better time' logic even applicable to this situation. This is not a tournament. There are no limited times. Second of all, this guys is certainly busting out in the next five minutes so there will likely be no other times to take his money. Third of all, this is a very very easy call. You are ahead here 90% of the time at least.

[djoyce003]

Oh come on. I posted a similar hand on here under "how bad was this call" the difference being AK here and AQ in mine. The general concensus was that it was probably right to call, but it's marginal. If you think this push by the fish doesn't mean two pair or a set more than 10% of the time then you are insane. In my experience it's more like 50/50 that you are ahead with this ace...nowhere even CLOSE to 90/10. Not sure what you were smoking, but would have loved your feedback on my hand post rather than lurking and then picking on my post here.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh come on. I posted a similar hand on here under "how bad was this call" the difference being AK here and AQ in mine. The general concensus was that it was probably right to call, but it's marginal. If you think this push by the fish doesn't mean two pair or a set more than 10% of the time then you are insane. In my experience it's more like 50/50 that you are ahead with this ace...nowhere even CLOSE to 90/10. Not sure what you were smoking, but would have loved your feedback on my hand post rather than lurking and then picking on my post here.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, never thought I'd be accused of lurking. I guess my ~2K posts in the last few months haven't been enough. I'll try to fix that. In any case, this hand is VERY different from your hand, man. Here are the main differences I see:
1. This villain is short stacked. Shows he's an idiot.
2. This villain is OPEN PUSHING, not raising your flop bet. This is a HUGE difference. People who open push in front of the preflop raiser are almost always trying to steal or thinking that there TP is good regardless of kicker. It is the mentality of "I have nothing, but this guy probably didn't hit the ace" or "Wow, I hit my miracle ace with my A5o, I'm SO excited!"

I am 90% certain the you are ahead here >80% of the time. If you don't believe me, or you play in different games from me, fine. But in my games, you are giving up a lot of money by not calling here with TPTK.

[djoyce003]

fair enough...I think the number is less than 90 but probably more than 50. Probably just selective memory on my part but I can remember them having some insane 2 pair here a significant amount of the time at least...i agree that he has to call here....but shouldn't be surprised to be beat.

[aces_full]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh come on. I posted a similar hand on here under "how bad was this call" the difference being AK here and AQ in mine. The general concensus was that it was probably right to call, but it's marginal. If you think this push by the fish doesn't mean two pair or a set more than 10% of the time then you are insane. In my experience it's more like 50/50 that you are ahead with this ace...nowhere even CLOSE to 90/10. Not sure what you were smoking, but would have loved your feedback on my hand post rather than lurking and then picking on my post here.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, never thought I'd be accused of lurking. I guess my ~2K posts in the last few months haven't been enough. I'll try to fix that. In any case, this hand is VERY different from your hand, man. Here are the main differences I see:
1. This villain is short stacked. Shows he's an idiot.
2. This villain is OPEN PUSHING, not raising your flop bet. This is a HUGE difference. People who open push in front of the preflop raiser are almost always trying to steal or thinking that there TP is good regardless of kicker. It is the mentality of "I have nothing, but this guy probably didn't hit the ace" or "Wow, I hit my miracle ace with my A5o, I'm SO excited!"

I am 90% certain the you are ahead here >80% of the time. If you don't believe me, or you play in different games from me, fine. But in my games, you are giving up a lot of money by not calling here with TPTK.

[/ QUOTE ]


I agree here on points 1 and 2 based on three recent hands I played at PS .25/.50 NL. In all 3 cases villain was in EP and short stacked in a pot I raised.

First hand I raise from button with 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif and only one limper in MP. BB calls,MP limper calls. Flop is k-rag-rag. BB insta-pushes,MP calls, I of course have nothing and I fold. BB shows KT offsuit for TP/marginal kicker.

Second hand I am in MP with QQ. I make it $2.50 to go and I end up in the middle with one caller behind and UTG limp calling. Flop is A high and UTG pushes. Of coure my QQ is surely no good and there is still a player to act behind me so I fold. The other player behind me calls. UTG shows A4 offsuit-once again top pair/no kicker.

Third time I have AA and get two callers again. The flop is all low cards with two spades. The first player in pushes his remaining $15 into a $9 pot. This time I call and unfortunatley I doubled him up. He called my raise from EP with J /images/graemlins/spade.gif7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif and had nothing but a draw on the flop.

Based on my experience, if a short stack open pushes on the flop he's either got top pair/no kicker top pair/good kicker (with top pair being less than A or K, like he called with QJ and hits a J high flop) or a draw. I think it's when they check-raise you all in or smooth call on a drawless board you need to worry about.

[Yeti]

With regards to the original post, if you're folding this then you really shouldn't be playing on Party.

[cookperson]

Call, call amillion times call. One thing I did wrong when I first started playing(and i think this applies to the majority of us), is anytime I had a very good hand like this, but someone bet like your villian did.i would automically assume he had the best hand possible, and go out like you did. But I have learned since then that you are probalby dominating him in this hand. The bottom line is you don't want to play scared poker, you will get beaten occasionally with a hand like this, but most of the time win them.

[lasseter]

To some extent it is selective memory. From a psychological standpoint you remember the odd/startling/I don't believe that [censored] happened to ME moment more than the mundane. You always remember the time your nut flush lost to the straight flush, or the time your TPTK with aces lost to the fish who raised with 2-7o. I don't really remember the times my top pair with kicker won, because I legitimately expect that to happen, it was not startling.

Sorry I digress, studied psych in college and love it when something I learned in school actually pans out as true.

lasseter

[fimbulwinter]

[ QUOTE ]
Call in an instant.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed 100%

fim

[SCfuji]

strength means weakness, basically, with your typical party donk.

[SCfuji]

i realize that i should've called this vs a player that i really didnt know and then adjusted in future hands, if there were any. thanks, im just starting with NL as i play limit for the majority of my hands.

[wbrumfiel]

[ QUOTE ]
"Wow, I hit my miracle ace with my A5o, I'm SO excited!

[/ QUOTE ]
If he hit that then he has OP drawing to 6 outs.