A23 hand

[lighterjobs]

Did I overplay?


PokerStars 2/4 Omaha/8 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (16 SB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

(IMO I think I should have checked here because I didn't have counterfeit protection and just two draws, but I thought a bet might narrow the field.)

River: (14 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds.

(should have checked 5th street too, but I made a desperate stab at the pot)

Final Pot: 16 BB

results in white:
<font color="white">hero wins pot with two pair, sixes and threes.
there is no low. </font>

[djr]

Preflop, you have a fairly strong hand. But I wouldn't have raised UTG, you want callers here. Reraising after it's been raised is much more acceptable.

Flop, good bet. You have the nut hi draw and a possible miracle low. The fact everyone called tells me this was a juicy table full of fish.

Turn, I can see the reasoning for betting this. I'd probably do the same. Given there are four players if your low comes and you get quartered you'll still come out even for this bet (disregarding the rake), if the spade comes you come out way ahead. Realize, you most likely won't get many people folding here now that a low is possible.

River. This is tricky. You've been pushing the whole way and with your UTG PFR raise I would have put you on AAxx. Given no one bet back at you, it's not very likely anyone has a set (depends on how passive these guys are). So your only real worry is someone with a 6 in hole. Then again, you're against 3 opponents with a rather large pot, odds are someone will call and anything better than a pair of 3's beats you. I'm torn between betting and checking, I'm sure someone else will give you better advice here.

[gergery]

I like how you played it.

Preflop: This hand is strong enough that you want others in. Normally that means limping, but at this table given that you were able to get it capped preflop while only losing one opponent, raising may have been better a choice at this particular table.

Flop: You have 8 outs for spadeflush, plus backdoor low worth maybe 2 outs, plus another 3 aces and 3 queens that will sometimes be good. So call it 14 total outs, so if you get two callers its EV+, and with this large pot I’d expect all to call. Plus you might have fold equity right now, and might get bluff equity later.

Turn: you have 8 outs for spadeflush, 16 outs for low that’s worth maybe 7 scoop outs, plus aces/queens for maybe ~18 effective outs. But I’d discount that somewhat since your opponents have to be calling with something here. I’d figure 2 spades are gone at least, maybe you’ll split for low. So maybe 14 net outs. So if you get 2 callers you’re good.

River: Great place to bluff. It looks like all 3 opponents were on draws, and the spade, straight and low draws all missed. With only the 4th pair you are unlikely to win a showdown, and your bluff here only need to work 1 in 14 times to be profitable. It’s very likely opponents that are ahead of you with hands like A244, 789T, etc. will fold. Additionally, the strongest hands here 6xxx did not connect with the flop, which means an opponent would have had to call on the flop on the strength of 3 cards instead of 4, which cuts their odds in half of still being here. This is a very different situation than if the 6 hit on the flop. Now the value of your flop and turn bets comes into play, as they bought you some bluff equity.

--Greg

[lighterjobs]

normally, i would limp utg and hope for a raise, but this table is calling every raise i make. that's why i went ahead and raised it utg.

[Yads]

[ QUOTE ]
River: Great place to bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Awful place to bluff. Against 2 opponents sure, but not into 3 opponents with a huge pot.

[gergery]

[ QUOTE ]
Awful place to bluff. Against 2 opponents sure, but not into 3 opponents with a huge pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I’ll define a good place to bluff as one where the chances of the bluff succeeding are greater than the pot odds on offer. Here you need to risk 1 bet to win 14, so this only needs to work 7% of the time to be profitable. Since the opponents were most likely on draws given how they all check-called but never raised, and all the draws missed, 7% seems well within reason.

I agree that large pots and multiple opponents are not good places in general to try bluffs, but as always how valuable something is depends on how much you have to pay for it. I’d bet the river very often in this situation, depending on opponents.

--Greg