sometimes the winner is... PARTY POKER

[mike3076]

PARTY POKER, and most other high traffic sites including pokerroom do their fair share of skimming money(extra profits).the most common of all methods is SNG's.
they have a certain (small ) percentage of bots who will be distributed top cards when you have second best-this is for action purposes,extracting by the most from you.
this creates probably an extra 200,000 dollars profit per year. But you think-they are making so much legitemitely
off of he rake, why would they do this??
simple. enuff is never enuff. and why not? you cant prove it .
pokerroom does it too ,but mostly in heads -up rooms,where your opponent will ALWAYS have one up on you.
if you dont agree-please go play heads up on pokerroom
(make sure your opponnent is already seated when you get there.) the bot will sit in that room for hours,as soon as you sit down bam! hes ready to play.
its one thing to have a bot playing on a program, but its another to have bots that recieve better poker hands....if you can design a random card shuffle you can definitely design a program to recieve not so random results.
just food for thought.

[AngryCola]

:yawn:

This thread has been done before.
Show me your evidence.

Oh wait, you can't.
You don't have any.

You're wrong.

http://ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/sucks13.jpg

[mike3076]

and show me your evidence,oh wait you cant you dont have any.
keep your self in the dark,but realize the possibility
is possible.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
and show me your evidence,oh wait you cant you dont have any.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, there's plenty of evidence to support a normal deal.

Run a search.

Beyond that, I think you're silly.
I've thought about it, and I still think you're wrong.

[mike3076]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and show me your evidence,oh wait you cant you dont have any.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, there's plenty of evidence to support a normal deal.

Run a search.

Beyond that, I think you're silly.
I've thought about it, and I still think you're wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]i hope your right but with massive amounts of players on these sites ,an extra 1000 an hr for the site would go undetected,besides they designed the programs for random shuffles-so they can design un random shuffles.extra profit is, well,extra profit...it doesnt make the games unbeatable,unless you are unlucky enuff to sit down with a bot like this.
any way its very possible and is happening as we speak.

[TwoShedsJackson]

[ QUOTE ]

any way its very possible and is happening as we speak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh no it isn't!!

[mike3076]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

any way its very possible and is happening as we speak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh no it isn't!!

[/ QUOTE ]lol-mike

[M50Paul]

I have played both on-line and live and have experienced the same crappy luck. I had two aces 3 times in a row
on-line and lost all 3 times. I would hold AK and loose to queens etc etc. Oh by the way the same things happen to me in live games. I think if I hadnt had these enjoyable expereinces both in the casino and on-line I might feel the same as you, but..... I guess it is all part of poker. Again I enjoy throwing myself head first into walls so I will continue playing and enjoy the pain

[sumdumguy]

[ QUOTE ]
pokerroom does it too ,but mostly in heads -up rooms,where your opponent will ALWAYS have one up on you.
if you dont agree-please go play heads up on pokerroom
(make sure your opponnent is already seated when you get there.) the bot will sit in that room for hours,as soon as you sit down bam! hes ready to play.

[/ QUOTE ]
Just maybe it might be ever so remotely possible that some of these players waiting might be heads up specialists.

[mike3076]

[ QUOTE ]
I have played both on-line and live and have experienced the same crappy luck. I had two aces 3 times in a row
on-line and lost all 3 times. I would hold AK and loose to queens etc etc. Oh by the way the same things happen to me in live games. I think if I hadnt had these enjoyable expereinces both in the casino and on-line I might feel the same as you, but..... I guess it is all part of poker. Again I enjoy throwing myself head first into walls so I will continue playing and enjoy the pain

[/ QUOTE ]LOL-IWASNT REALLYtalking about bad beats but the theory of the possibility-i too play in b&m pokerrooms but i still think this is a valid possibility.

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
pokerroom does it too ,but mostly in heads -up rooms,where your opponent will ALWAYS have one up on you.
if you dont agree-please go play heads up on pokerroom
(make sure your opponnent is already seated when you get there.) the bot will sit in that room for hours,as soon as you sit down bam! hes ready to play.

[/ QUOTE ]
Just maybe it might be ever so remotely possible that some of these players waiting might be heads up specialists.

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on, give me a break. There are no HU specialists waiting on the poker sites. It's far more likely that they are bots.

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]
pokerroom does it too ,but mostly in heads -up rooms

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you considered the possibility that you suck at HU poker? Just a thought...

[RevAgain]

[ QUOTE ]

Have you considered the possibility that you suck at HU poker? Just a thought...

[/ QUOTE ]

6 surplus words there, or 7 if you count HU as two.

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
PARTY POKER, and most other high traffic sites including pokerroom...have a certain (small) percentage of bots who will be distributed top cards when you have second best... why would they do this?? simple. enuff is never enuff. and why not? you cant prove it ...if you can design a random card shuffle you can definitely design a program to recieve not so random results. just food for thought.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hi Mike,

How would you respond if someone posted a message on this forum accusing some live card player of cheating, even if they went on to write that no one could prove it and they felt it was true simply because everyone wants more money and they accused had the skill to do it?

In the most important regards, is making such an accusation against a large company different than making such an accusation against an individual?

Is it morally or socially acceptable to do this with a company but not so with a person?

Is it ethically OK to do with a corporation but not a person?

Would it matter who the live player named was? What if it was you?

Just some more food for thought.

TomBk

[bigmac366]

its hard for me to take anything you say seriously. in one thread you talk about playing frequently with daniel n., and in another you tell a player to take advantage of his friend who is a very weak player. now your starting another "online poker is rigged" thread. how pathetic. let me guess, your the biggest winner in the big side games but when you play online you lose all your money. give me a break. anyone smart enough to play at the $4000-$8000 level is smart enough to know that no site is dumb enough to risk their reputation in a business where reputation is everything. if it came out that party was using bots to skim an extra 200k per year, they would shut down overnight. also please consider how measly 200k is compared to the 2 billion they took in last year alone. in conclusion, your a dumbass. that is all.

[frank_iii]

Actually, the evidence will be coming if it exists.

I AM NOT A CONSPIRACY THEORIST, BUT...

Once Poker Tracker moves to MySQL, I know I'm going to spend some time trying to compose some good db queries to pull out "interesting" info. I'm sure that smarter people than I will be doing the same or better.

I don't (yet! /images/graemlins/wink.gif ) really believe it, but right now my current pet conspiracy theory is that party poker runs action bots that only seem to beat "winning" players. These bots are 60+% vpip players that do not answer chats and never show up except for one day (I keep them on my buddy list and never see them again, even through datamining). When heads up or shorthanded versus a TA-A, they crush the opponent with a monster hand or an amazing runner runner catch at the end that even a complete imbecile would never have played short of a misclick.

Interesting times to come! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[FredJones888]

I think you are right about the bots. Very few people could beat a bot heads up for any significant length of timme.

I think you are wrong about the cards. The bots are good enough by themselves, they don't need a fixed deck.

[BruinEric]

[ QUOTE ]
right now my current pet conspiracy theory is that party poker runs action bots that only seem to beat "winning" players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummmm...why think PP needs to run their own bots to beat winning players? Wouldn't it be simpler to do this:

1) Send a e-mail memo to PLAYER X (a US resident) stating that PLAYER X has been found to be cheating. Hey, PP owns the place, who can question their judgement?

2) Confiscate all PLAYER X's money

If Party wants dribs and drabs of money at the margins, the above is faster and more effective without any special software code.

What is PLAYER X gonna do? Take Party Poker to court? Bwahahahahahaha. Maybe PLAYER X will go to the FBI or the local police? Bwahahahaha. The money is gone and there's nothing PLAYER X can do.

Why don't you get some buddies to pool their dealt cards or cards-hitting-the-board databases from PT (assuming they can extract for you) and then run your experiments. You need a large sample size so your next post isn't "Party Poker deals T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif less frequently than expected!"

The problem with all these PP consipiracy theories is that they're too complex to be done for the payoff that results. PP is making good money. There's all sorts of easier ways to make additional dough at the margins. Just delaying all cashouts by 2 days and keeping the interest would be one quick boost. But they don't do that.

[BruinEric]

It took the U Alberta folks years and years of effort to make a supremely talented heads-up bot...PokiBot.

If PP wrote their own HU bot, I would assume it would be considerably less skilled than the U Alberta effort which required years of applied effort and big brainpower behind it. Then this would be a goldmine. The bot could probably be datamined and broken by someone much smarter than I and surely smarter than the PP code writers.

Best of luck to you.

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]

they have a certain (small ) percentage of bots who will be distributed top cards when you have second best-this is for action purposes,extracting by the most from you.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is silly. Someone will always have second best and someone will always have the best hand.

[Thythe]

We just can't wait for you to be gone.

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]
and show me your evidence,oh wait you cant you dont have any.
keep your self in the dark,but realize the possibility
is possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

US law is based on the principle of innocent until proven guilty because it is generally difficult if not impossible to prove a negative proposition. That some one did not commit a crime is a negative proposition.

Asking for proof that Party is not cheating is asking someone to prove a negative. It is logically impossible. On the other hand, it only takes one instance, one example, to prove that Party is cheating. Your logic is that cheating is possible, no one can prove that there is no cheating, therefore there is cheating. Brilliant!!

Speculating about possible online cheating because it is possible is like speculating about other forms of life in the universe, because that too is possible. To prove that extraterrestial life does not exist, you would have to visit every planet in the universe and show that there is no life there. To prove that it does exist, you would have to find a single example. Proving the nonexistence of cheating or of ETs is impossible. Proving the existence takes one tiny little example. We have seen neither.

That said, we continue our quest for intelligent life on earth, conspiracy theorists to the contrary.

[frank_iii]

[ QUOTE ]
Ummmm...why think PP needs to run their own bots to beat winning players?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, because apparently they have a legion of players that absolutely refuse to even CONSIDER the idea that they are being cheated. /images/graemlins/smile.gif The other methods will be easily noticed.

ANYWAY, I think you missed out on the part where I said I don't really believe the conspiracy theories. Even if that is the case, though, a healthy dose of skepticism is never going to hurt. If you're planning on hiring an employee or taking a job, you'd spend a little bit of time checking references and doing research, right? If you have the ability to write SQL and do some programming (and find it fun!), where is the harm in writing a few queries to test/disprove common conspiracy theories?

Like I said earlier, I don't doubt that smart people will soon be doing complex database queries once PT uses MySQL. I plan on reading the results and creating some of my own. Maybe I'm just a nerd but I find this stuff enjoyable.

[Thythe]

Well said.

[bigmac366]

[ QUOTE ]
Well said

[/ QUOTE ]

[bigmac366]

[ QUOTE ]
We just can't wait for you to be gone.

[/ QUOTE ] !

[irongarden]

[ QUOTE ]
they have a certain (small ) percentage of bots who will be distributed top cards when you have second best-this is for action purposes,extracting by the most from you.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are almost certainly bots playing online, and many of them would play very good poker heads up. Writing a program to hook to the Party (or any other poker site) client, read the cards, and press send mouse clicks to the buttons is pretty trivial. However, there's no reason to think that Party is more likely to have created these bots than underemployed Russian software engineers, for whom making a bot that can generate $5 an hour is a big deal.

[kdog]

[ QUOTE ]
*** You are ignoring this user ***

[/ QUOTE ]

Great feature this ignore function.