Really Weird Play

[sthief09]

I decided I'd play this weird, to try and see if I liked it. people take this line sometimes with monsters and I'd really like to improve the chances I can make someone fold a small pair. is there any merit to this? right now I have no reads or notes because I'm not at school. does this line have any merit against a tight player? I know I'd fold 99 if I was that guy

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP3 calls.

Flop: (7.66 SB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP3 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (3.83 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>

for a free showdown. I was planning to do this on any turn card

[brettbrettr]

Sure, against a tight player. But having no reads.....

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
I decided I'd play this weird, to try and see if I liked it. people take this line sometimes with monsters and I'd really like to improve the chances I can make someone fold a small pair. is there any merit to this? right now I have no reads or notes because I'm not at school. does this line have any merit against a tight player? I know I'd fold 99 if I was that guy

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP3 calls.

Flop: (7.66 SB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP3 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (3.83 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>

for a free showdown. I was planning to do this on any turn card

[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming villain isn't a moron (he is at 15/30) his open raising standards from this position may be pretty loose. I'm not sure I'd let him see the turn for free.

[Nate tha' Great]

I don't like it.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like it.

[/ QUOTE ]


k, figured as much

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like it.

[/ QUOTE ]


k, figured as much

[/ QUOTE ]

The first problem IMHO is that it looks pretty unnatural to check behind on that flop. It's uncoordinated and T high - what sort of monster are you supposed to have here? You'd be silly to play TT or god forbid something like 33 this way.

The second problem is that the turn card is too semi-bluffy.

The third problem is that the J is too likely to have hit your opponent.

The fourth problem is that you probably need to call a 3-bet.

I don't know if I'd fold 99 here, especially considering that I'd have been willing to put in a fair number of bets to see a showdown with that hand on this flop anyway.

[sthief09]

ok so let's say the flop comes Q94 and the turn doesn't give me a gut shot. or just a better board for this type of thing. then does it have any merit? or should I just stop worrying about this type of stuff?

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
ok so let's say the flop comes Q94 and the turn doesn't give me a gut shot. or just a better board for this type of thing. then does it have any merit? or should I just stop worrying about this type of stuff?

[/ QUOTE ]

you should stop worrying about this type of stuff. most players will not fold here. betting hte flop is just so much better.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
ok so let's say the flop comes Q94 and the turn doesn't give me a gut shot. or just a better board for this type of thing. then does it have any merit? or should I just stop worrying about this type of stuff?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd stop worrying about it. It might be worth worrying about if you're playing 2- or 3-handed against certain types of opponents, or if you're playing in a game that's about 40/80 or higher or so. I think straightforward play really gets the money in the Party 15/30. For the most part I think these weird sort of passive plays are just as likely to confuse you as they are your opponent, and lead to a lot of awkward decisions after the flop where you're not really sure where you're at, a la many of Bruiser's posts in the NL forum.

That said, I don't know that I've ever played a hand quite like this one, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.

I'll *occasionally* check behind on the flop last to act heads up with a hand like AK if my opponent is one of the blinds and the flop is something like 765 with a flush draw - there's a high probability of a check-raise there, both as a bluff and with a made hand, and my folding equity is low so I might try right away to get to a cheapish showdown. Perhaps if the turn card were like an offsuit Q and I was pretty damn sure that I could fold to a 3-bet ... then I might raise but I'm not in that situation very often.

But basically I think this sort of play is going to get you in trouble. At best you're picking up a little bit of additional folding equity, but it's for a 2 BB investment, when a flop bet costs you .5 BB and a flop/turn bet costs you 1.5 BB.

[sthief09]

ok that explains it well. thanks, Nate