Routine overpair folds?

[rory]

One I thought was good, the other I'm not sure about.

Party 10/20 6-max

Passive loose limper (UTG) open limps, loose aggressive (LAG) guy raises, CO folds, unknown button (BTN) cold calls 2, passive loose guy (SB) calls in the SB, I 3 bet with JJ, all call.

Flop is Td, 4d, 5h. SB checks, I check, PLL bets, everybody calls.

Turn is the 7s. SB checks, I check, UTG bets, BTN calls, SB raises and I fold.

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Party 10/20, 6 handed

Loose aggressive guy raises, everyone folds, I 3 bet on the button with QQ, BB who thinks he can outplay everyone postflop calls, LAG calls.

Flop is 8c, 9h, 9d. LAG bets out, I raise, BB cold calls two, LAG calls.

Turn is the 2s. BB bets out, LAG raises, types in the chat "KK no good" and I fold.

[Alobar]

what is your thought process on the flop in hand 1?

[rory]

Betting out doesn't protect my hand, so I went for a check raise to try to thin the field. The way it worked out, unfortunately, I couldn't thin it by raising so I decided to see what the turn brought before putting in any more money.

[Grisgra]

Tricky . . . I would have a tough time folding #1. Maybe he has a set, maybe he has a straight, but the pot seems huge at this point, and he might just have two pair in which case I've got outs. On the other hand, that's a lot to hope for, and am I really laying down to one bet on the river if I miss?

I just don't see this as a bluff or even AT. But it's an overpair . . . and ooooooooverpair!

Hand #2, in my experience when LAGs make statements like this, they're usually being honest, trying to taunt you into a call. But at 10/20 maybe they're even more tricky than usual, and he doesn't have it /images/graemlins/smile.gif. I really have no clue.

Wow, what a useless response.

[spydog]

Hand 1: Why do you 3-bet this preflop if you aren't going to lead or checkraise a great flop? I'm confused. When a loose passive throws in a turn CR against a bettor and a caller, he usually has 2-pair or better, so I like the fold.

Hand 2: I 3-bet the turn here. LAG looks like he's afraid of overcards and is trying to push you out of the pot. I think BB checkraises the turn with a 9, so I stand a pretty good chance of being ahead.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 2: I 3-bet the turn here. LAG looks like he's afraid of overcards and is trying to push you out of the pot. I think BB checkraises the turn with a 9, so I stand a pretty good chance of being ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it more looks like BB is trying to trap the LAG between you two. Unless hes an uber lag and the BB could count on him to raise a super high portion of the time, in which case he could be trying to push you off your hand......damn, now Im confused /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Jeff W]

[ QUOTE ]

Party 10/20 6-max

Passive loose limper (UTG) open limps, loose aggressive (LAG) guy raises, CO folds, unknown button (BTN) cold calls 2, passive loose guy (SB) calls in the SB, I 3 bet with JJ, all call.

Flop is Td, 4d, 5h. SB checks, I check, PLL bets, everybody calls.

Turn is the 7s. SB checks, I check, UTG bets, BTN calls, SB raises and I fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would just call JJ in the BB. You have the second worst position, your hand may be behind MP and many overcards can come to ruin your hand.

[helpmeout]

1 Bet the flop, they expect you to bet so anyone with a T is going to raise you. I'm not worried about protecting my hand here I want to build the pot.

2. Looks ok to me.

[mperich]

You have to 3bet your jacks here. You probably have a large edge, especially with this many people coming along. It will be hard to make these bets up postgflop so DO NOT SMOOTH CALL. Also you must bet this flop, I don't even like going for a checkraise here. People who 3bet pf and dont bet the flop are up to something.

As far as the folds go. Hand 1 well its fairly close but definately leaning to the fold side. I'm very wary of checkraises in multiway pots. Especially from passive players haha. Ok yah definite fold, and nice fold on ur part.

Hand 2: Hmmm interesting one. Interesting as to what the lag has but he is a LAG so you must call him down because well, the BB has a small pocket pair. If the bb 3bets of course you can fold but I have a feeling he might fold once you call. Headsup against the BB you need to raise this turn btw.

-Mike

[Jeff W]

Preflop: Jeff is SB with Jd, Js.
UTG calls, MP raises, CO 3-bets, 1 fold, Jeff caps...

I 3bet 99 in rory's spot. I'm giving him a gentle ribbing for some of his past blind defense posts.

[Schneids]

Ugh I hate hand one that is so fancy-play syndrome, just bet the flop already and be done with it. Of course you're going to get pushed outta the pot if you check, it looks like you have overcards to the board not an overpair people aren't afraid to try to try protect their hands in this game... What a horrible spot to be in, now. I don't know what to do in this spot since usually i've put in a bet or two on the flop and maybe even a bet on the turn before SB has had a chance to c/r.

Hand 2 I call and call.

[Michael Davis]

I think you are so tight preflop that people are going to take shots at you and can't fold these hands.

-Michael

[MAxx]

hand one:

imo the idea of protection is not relevant in this flop situation. you just can't protect. who were you planning on c/r on the flop? you don't really know what your relative position to the flop leader will be in advance, for one thing.

the biggest thing in my mind is that with 15SBs in the pot on preflop action alone, people are likely going to be getting the necessary odds to call 2 cold from you anyway with all kinds of garbage... gutshots, underpairs, overcards, you name it they should liklely call it.

and you def arent going to discourage the better more legit draws.

i think you gotta lead away on this flop.