Stupid stat question

[Nick C]

All right, despite bdk3clash's recent post, I was going over my stats tonight. And I'm TA-A and all that, but I was wondering what the normal range for these categories is:

Went to SD %
Won $ at SD %
Check/raise %

I know this is a basic question, but I don't know the answer. So I'm hoping you guys can help out. (My numbers seem in line for the showdown categories, based on what I've seen from other stat posts, but I'm not sure, and I have no idea what's standard for 2+2ers regarding checkraises. Sometimes I worry I'm getting too straightforward.)

[The-Matador]

This isn't a stupid question at all, so don't worry.

Here are my 3-6 and 5-10 stats:

Went to SD: 40%
Won $ at SD:52%
Check/raise: 2%

The only difference in my 2-4 stats is a lower WTSD. There it is about 36%. I win about 2 more BB/100 at 2-4 than at 3-6 on average, so this might be relevant.

Oh, and I am *not* TAA as defined by Bison's rules. I am only semi-tight, with a VPIP hovering about 21%. I believe that the extra hands I play over your typical 2+2 player are a result of a more strict reliance on pot equity calculations and the value of entering large pots with marginal holdings. I also tend to play very well postflop (not trying to brag, just explaining), so I can afford more hands preflop.

[Nick C]

I don't have as much confidence in my postflop skills as you do. But I am bordering on being sLA preflop, to be honest. And maybe I will be soon, after having read Nate's recent General Forum post.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
read Nate's recent General Forum post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Link?

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
Link?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know how to do those, unfortunately. I'm sure it's easy enough. Someday I'll learn.

It's called "You Play Too Tight," and Nate tha' Great wrote it.

It's on Page 11 of the General Forum right now for me, but I think that could be different for you if you have different settings set up on this site.

[Michael Davis]

For a link just click "URL" on Instant UBB Code underneath the text box. Go from there.

-Michael

[jason_t]

Thank you. I found it using the search tool since you told me the title. For those interested, the article can be found here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1767198&page=&view=&s b=5&o=).

[Nick C]

Okay, I know you already created a link, but I'm testing this to see if I figured out Michael's instruction's correctly. You play too tight. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1767198&page=10&view= collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1)

Now I'll check back and see if that worked.

(Well, it did on the preview screen, so I think I did it right.)

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, I know you already created a link, but I'm testing this to see if I figured out Michael's instruction's correctly.

[/ QUOTE ]

It works. Thanks again for mentioning the article

[pokerjunky]

[ QUOTE ]


Oh, and I am *not* TAA as defined by Bison's rules. I am only semi-tight, with a VPIP hovering about 21%. I believe that the extra hands I play over your typical 2+2 player are a result of a more strict reliance on pot equity calculations and the value of entering large pots with

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you calculate your pot equity without knowing what your opponents hold?

[Nick C]

There have been a lot of good hand posts tonight, and I apologize for bumping this thread, but I am still curious about something.

Since the numbers (52%) for Won $ at SD that Matador gave are very close to mine, and since the Went to SD % he gave (40%) is at least in the range of mine, I'm no longer so concerned that my check/raise % is too low. (He cited 2% for that, for those who have his posts on ignore.) I was a bit worried when I looked at my checkraise stats for the first time and saw how rarely, in terms of percentage, I use the play, but apparently my stats for checkraising aren't that abnormal.

I am wondering, though, is 40% higher than usual for most 2+2ers for the Went to SD stat? My numbers for that category are a bit lower.

[Harv72b]

My sample size is pretty small, but if it helps...

2/4 (15.5k):
Went to SD: 33.68
Won $ at SD: 49.37 (I know mine is too low here)
Check/raise: 1.46%

3/6 (8.3k):
Went to SD: 34.30
Won $ at SD: 52.59
Check/raise: 1.91

These hands were all played on Party, if that matters. FWIW, the numbers I've seen bandied about on here in the past are ~32-36 Went to SD, 51-55 Won at SD. I haven't seen any discussions on check/raise percentages.

[jason_t]

Since this thread just got bumped up to the top by Nick's post, I wanted to mention that I spent today reading and thinking about Nate's post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1767198&page=&view=&s b=5&o=) and if you haven't done this already, you should.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
My sample size is pretty small, but if it helps...

2/4 (15.5k):
Went to SD: 33.68
Won $ at SD: 49.37 (I know mine is too low here)
Check/raise: 1.46%

3/6 (8.3k):
Went to SD: 34.30
Won $ at SD: 52.59
Check/raise: 1.91

These hands were all played on Party, if that matters. FWIW, the numbers I've seen bandied about on here in the past are ~32-36 Went to SD, 51-55 Won at SD. I haven't seen any discussions on check/raise percentages.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks! My numbers do fall within the 32-36 and 51-55 ranges you mention, and your checkraise numbers do confirm for me that my checkraise percentage isn't that low after all.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
I am wondering, though, is 40% higher than usual for most 2+2ers for the Went to SD stat? My numbers for that category are a bit lower.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW:

At 3/6 after 14K hands:
WtoSD%=36%
Won$@SD=49%
C/r%=1.55%
Net gain=Barely better than break-even.

At 2/4 after 18K hands:
WtoSD%=32%
Won$@SD=52%
C/r%=1.3%
Net gain=almost 2BB/100.

I'm not sure if anything can be extrapolated from the above two sets of numbers, except that I chased more in the tighter, more aggressive 3/6 games. The numbers may also be skewed by the fact that I hit a 110BB slide within the first 7K hands at 3/6.

Finally, I wouldn't sweat your low c/r percentage. I had a 30BB win tonight in 2.5 hours of play, and I don't know if I even checkraised once. Remember, if you are playing with mostly LP-Ps or LA-Ps, you can't count on them to bet after the flop, especially if you have been the aggressor. Against players like these, going for checkraises can lead to missed bets and murderous free cards. As CDC said, "Betting is underrated."

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
As CDC said, "Betting is underrated."

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, this is one of my favorite CDC quotes.

[Schizo]

[ QUOTE ]
bdk3clash's recent post,

[/ QUOTE ]

I've read nates post, but where is bdk3clash's?

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
bdk3clash's recent post,

[/ QUOTE ]

I've read nates post, but where is bdk3clash's?

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, I've learned how to do this now, thanks to Michael Davis's post in this thread, so here goes:

Tight and aggressive preflop is not enough (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1816735&page=3&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1)