Missing completely

[Bill Smith]

Probably the biggest area I'm struggling at right now is when I raise with Ace + good kicker and miss the board. Example below:

Button's stats are something like 32/3 with very low flop aggression and very high river aggression.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: (5.50 SB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

River: (5.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

Especially when I have a read that my opponent has an astronomical river aggression stat, this is the line I seem to end up taking, and I absolutely hate calling that river bet. Is this standard for all of you regular and profitable players?

[Bill Smith]

MP is loose passive preflop, but no other notes.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero...

Final Pot: 4.75 BB

[SomethingClever]

I usually just fold this.

On the first one you posted, sometimes I don't bet the turn... depends on my read. And I usually don't call the river unless I'm against a total donk. If I know they'll bet the river when checked to, I mark 'em down for a future checkraise.

Don't listen to me, though, I got crushed with AKo this month.

[Jeff W]

On this particular board, I'm check-folding the turn because I'm going to get raised out of this hand a lot. There isn't much value in Ace-high on this board.

If I somehow made it to the river, I'd check-call like you did.

[Jeff W]

Folding is my default play in the AT hand.

Please post hands in separate threads, or things become confusing for us simpletons.

[Bill Smith]

[ QUOTE ]
Please post hands in separate threads, or things become confusing for us simpletons.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just trying not to load up the board with threads of me... I'd argue that's worse. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[SmileyEH]

I'd bet the turn here but checkfolding the river is far better than any other action. High river agression really means the player draws a lot then either folds or bets on the river (he hits or he doesn't).

-SmileyEH

[spider]

Hand 1 -- I agree with Jeff, check-fold turn. You pick up a gutter, but only have one overcard and no heart. Small pot, let it go.

Hand 2 -- Raise or fold on turn depending on read. You say he's passive, so I'd fold.

[Jeff W]

Be free and spam.

I prefer many clear threads to one confusing thread.

[RunDownHouse]

On the first, I don't especially mind the turn bet. You'll often get a fold, and if you get called and are behind, you've got at least a couple outs. The river is a clear fold, however.

On the second, easy fold. At best I think you're drawing to 6 outs, more likely 3, in a small pot.

And I definitely second splitting these hands into different threads. If you put 3-4 hands in a thread, I most likely will have comments on 1 of the hands, but not the others, and won't feel like just posting on the one. I'm lazy like that.

[Jeff W]

In hand 1, I don't agree that the river is a clear fold, because I think he has a missed draw often enough to make the call profitable.

[Bill Smith]

Hand 2 I folded... just making sure.

Hand 1 Button shows 99 no heart. Quite the ballsy bet on the river, which I did use to my advantage several hands later.

[Jeff W]

His river bet is easy: It is abundantly clear that you have nothing.

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

His river bet is easy: It is abundantly clear that you have nothing.


[/ QUOTE ]

Jeff, I think this is the first time I have ever disagreed with one of your posts.

Bill's line here is completely consistent with a hand that is a pair or makes a pair on the flop, bets to charge the flush draws, then check-calls to snap off a bluff/get to showdown cheap.

How is it so clear Bill has nada?

Guy.

[Jeff W]

The only hand that Bill might play this way that beats 99 is TT.

Most players aren't sophisticated enough to induce bluffs in situations where their hand has value, even if that is the correct play. People in the button's spot will call a bet with as little as A-high--figuring you for a heart draw bluff, so it's vital to value bet as often as possible.

Thanks for your compliment, although I'm sure at least some of my posts have room for disagreement /images/graemlins/smirk.gif.