Spewing money? QJs

[Jake (The Snake)]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero completes, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB caps</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, MP2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, BB calls.

River: (21 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 25 BB

I'm thinking that calling the turn 3-bet and check/calling the river is probably the right line.

[DemonDeac]

[ QUOTE ]


I'm thinking that calling the turn 3-bet and check/calling the river is probably the right line.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont

[Harv72b]

Against an unknown Party 2/4 player, I'd take the same line. Raising from the BB after 3 limpers, the only hand he's likely to have which beats you is A/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, and I'm not ready to give him credit for that until the river raise. I think you see an overpair or QQ pretty often here, though.

[Jake (The Snake)]

uhh.. care to elaborate?

[mr pink]

could have raised preflop but whatever.

flop is word.

i think i lead out on the turn. either of the 2 callers might have just picked up a flush redraw, i'd bet out and hope the bb raises to charge them the most.

also, i like to be able to 3-bet cause you give him the option to cap. since you capped the turn, there's no reason not to lead the river. if he instead had capped the turn, i'd probably check/call the river. the same # of bets go in either way and it gives you a better idea about his hand. i might be off on this, but it's a matter of preference and i don't think it matters much. i'd like to hear what others think though.

if you spewed here, i don't think it was bad.

[einbert]

Honestly, Jake, I would've been tempted to three-bet the river. I think you played this fine.

[CallMeIshmael]

Given villian's aggression on the flop, I don't think this is spewing at all. If he turns A /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gif, well, thats poker.

If another player wakes up on the turn and throws in cap, then I might agree that betting into them on the river is spewing.

[ewile]

I think that you played this well. I especially like the 3 bet on the flop.

[private joker]

I like this hand up until the turn cap. Your check-raise on the turn stinks of a flush, big time. If he's still not slowing down, I'm starting to give him credit for a better flush; especially since he raised PF, which could mean AKs or ATs of hearts. I'd call the turn 3-bet and check-call the river. Maybe that's weak, but barring a read that he's a maniac, I don't see who would 3-bet this turn with just an overpair.

I hope he had a set of Queens (but there's only one way to have that, so...)

[Jake (The Snake)]

Villain had AK of hearts and MHING.

I tend to agree with joker on this one, but maybe I'm influenced by the result.

[Shillx]

The key to hands like this is that it is okay to go crazy as long as there are people padding the pot. Once MP1 and MP2 fold, you need to slow way down. Your hand ins't such that you want to get into a spewing match heads up.

Brad

[pokerstudAA]

Qj seems to be a theme around these parts.

[ QUOTE ]

I'm thinking that calling the turn 3-bet and check/calling the river is probably the right line.

[/ QUOTE ]

Definately not. I think I am following your line here every time. The BB preflop-raise indicates a strong hand. Some hands that would follow this same line from the BB 3-bet the turn that you are ahead of. AxA /images/graemlins/heart.gif, KXK /images/graemlins/heart.gif A /images/graemlins/heart.gifQx. You are only behind A /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/heart.gif and any other A /images/graemlins/heart.gifX /images/graemlins/heart.gif that the BB would play this way - AT, AJ (not likely)


I can see that the villian did not respect hero's check raise when the flush card hit the turn. I think he might 3-bet this with a nut re-draw as well as the nuts.

[Yeknom58]

Why not CR the flop?

Looks fine either way. I like the way you played it. On the turn why can't he also have QQ or AhQx.

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]


Definately not. I think I am following your line here every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Care to elaborate on this LAGgish thinking? Just because it's possible for Hero to be ahead doesn't mean he should just keep ramming and jamming.

This over-aggro philosophy that keeps sprouting up in SS is getting weird. Whatever happened to hand-reading and following betting patterns? Our opponents in these games are generally loose-passive. They generally recognize the strength of a check-raise, and they generally notice when there are three of a suit on the board. When the opponent here 3-bets a turn check-raise that makes an obvious flush, it's reckless to cap the turn and bet the river in my opinion. Sure, once in a while the Villain will have QQ and you'll be so proud of yourself that you kept pushing. But when you start routinely overplaying non-nut hands (someone even suggested 3-betting this river!) and then complaining when your passive opponent slowed down with a better hand, it's time to realize something is wrong with your thinking.

[Harv72b]

I think you're overestimating the average Party 2/4 player. Many, many opponents in that game will 3-bet the turn with hands that Hero is ahead of...frustrated players who refuse to believe that their AA or KK is behind (especially if they hold a /images/graemlins/heart.gif with their overpair), the overplayed QQ hand, or even AhQx (although many people will check through preflop with that hand).

I am not going to assume that an unknown will PFR from the BB vs. 3 limpers with ATs, which only leaves one likely hand that Hero is trailing to, vs. many other likely hands which a poor/tilting player will bet like this.

Because of that, I agree with capping the turn/leading the river. I think any other line ends up losing money over the long run, when you fail to charge a player who is basically betting a draw on the turn &amp; will check through unimproved on the river (and I do think you'll see that much more often than flush over flush in this situation).