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View Full Version : Cheat sheet for VP$IP, showing what hands he might have?


TenPercenter
02-26-2005, 05:01 AM
It's hard to explain what I want. I might have to make it myself, I but wanted to see if there's something out there already.

When I'm running PT and Gametime+, I show the stats for VP$IP and PreFlop Raise percentage for the opponents. These give me a good idea about what two cards the villain plays, and especially what he raises with.

I can pull out the calculator (I'm not good at on-the-fly math) to see how many hands of the 161 hands 5% is, or 24% etc. But I'd like a chart to tape to the wall that shows what the guy might be holding. Examples: (again, my math is bad, but you get the idea):

===========
3%...Group 1 (AA to AKs)
11%..Group 1 and all pocket pairs, or Group 1-3

etc

I saw something like this explained in text on a PokerEDGE page, but I'd like a better, concise and organized chart or crib sheet.

[ QUOTE ]
Lets see how to use the above table to analyze a tight player that shows a VP$IP number of 18%, and a PreFlop Raise of 3.5%. To make 18% for VP$IP, this player is probably playing Big Pocket Pairs, Big Cards, Other Broadway Cards (suited), and half of the Other Broadway Cards (unsuited). If you add the percentages together, you get 2.26+6.03+1.51+2.26=12.06. Assuming this player calls about half of the small blinds, that adds another 5%. We arrive at 17.06% which is very close to his VP$IP of 18%. His PreFlop Raise of 3.5% indicates that he is probably only raising Big Pocket Pairs, and AK.
.

[ and here's a chart they display, but not exactly what I want. (http://www.poker-edge.com/stats.php#preflop) ]


[/ QUOTE ]

If you understand what I'm getting at, have you seen such a beast?


Ten

maryfield48
02-26-2005, 06:08 PM
No, but I want it too.

Kovner
02-26-2005, 08:10 PM
There's a huge problem with this kind of thing: Players (are supposed to) play more hands in late position. GT+ only tells you how many hands that guy plays on average, but it doesn't tell you how much that guy adjusts for position. Another thing it doesn't tell you is which hands is overvalues or undervalues: Does this guy play a lot of Axo but not too much suited connectors? (etc.)
Finally, you presumably only have a short sample size of this guy's hands, so your stats are only an estimate. Even if you're playing in the same game online time after time, I can't imagine you get more than a couple thousand hands from someone.
Because of these things, it is absurd to use your PT stats as more than estimating reads. You should start to get reads on what type of hands someone with vp$ip in between 10 and 20, 20 and 30, 30 and 40, etc. will play but trying to figure out exactly the range of hands he'll have will only get you in trouble and prevent you from improving your preflop play.
Additionally, if you base what hands you should play on the exact hands this chart will tell you, you'll get in trouble with the "I'm probably favorite here" thinking that simplifies pre-flop theory. You'll start looking at all the hands he could play in that situation and you'll think your ace-deuce is good against most of those hands. Problem is, A2 isn't a good hand for other reasons: It's hard to know when you're ace-high is good, if you're dominated you'll lose a significant amount of money, etc. These are the reasons KJo is overvalued by new players by explained to be weak by theory.

Anyways, long point short - use those numbers as estimates, you'll get yourself into trouble once you start thinking they can reveal the exact odds and correctness of your play.

TimM
03-09-2005, 03:22 AM
I wrote an excel sheet for this. I wouldn't know how to distribute it but it's easy to duplicate.

Headings for Row 1: Hand, Number, Percent

Below these, in Column A, from A2 down, put in the hands in whatever order you like. (Edit: obviously sorted from strongest to weakest. I made several sheets using Sklansky rankings, GoCee rankings vs various numbers of players, and PokerRoom stats.) Use the same notation as most of the 2+2 books, (eg. TT, AQ, K9s, etc.)

Cell B2: =12-6*(RIGHT(A2,1)=LEFT(A2,1))-8*(EXACT(RIGHT(A2,1),"s"))
Highlight B2 and the rest of column B down ot the last hand and do a fill down.

Cell C2: =SUM($B$2:B2)/1326
Again fill down (you can also format this column as a percentage).

That's it.