Who is the most overated athlete of all time?

[Alobar]

This post is obviously inspired by another thread, but I figured it was an interesting question all on its own.

I'll agree that tyson has to be way up there. Bill Walton immediately comes to my mind. who else??

[AngryCola]

Babe Ruth /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[[censored]]

I'll go with Tyson. I don't think his accomplishments hold up anymore. A classic example of myth over reality.

Walton is probably overrated but at the same time he won and was good.

While someone like Ruth may not be able to compete in today's game he still accomplished feats that held up long after he did.

Tyson never beat any heavyweights who are even considered good when looking back let alone great.

[tolbiny]

lol

(this is a joke right?)

[jason_t]

Bo Jackson.

[bosoxfan]

Easily Cal Ripken. In his 20 years he hit .265 or less 10 times. He also has the honor of hitting into the most double plays in a career.

[bholdr]

in his heyday, before the injuries, Bo Jackson was, IMO, hands down the greatest athlete in the world. he dominated baseball AND football, at the same time, a cross sport phenomenon that even MJ was unable to compare with.

and the most overrated athlete, IMO? in his time it was...

The BOZ! i still remember him getting run over like a child by a train in seattle. he was supposed to be a brick wall.

[thatpfunk]

[ QUOTE ]
Bill Walton immediately comes to my mind

[/ QUOTE ]

Just wondering your justification for this one? He was a great college player but his career in the NBA was basically ruined by injuries...

[bholdr]

isn't he also like third on the SO list? the streak is also meaningless, some pine time would have help his sorry swing in a couple of those years.

I think we have a winner.

[slickpoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
Bo Jackson.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way man. He wasn't a great baseball player, but if he hadn't broken his hip in the prime of his career he probably would have gone on to be in the football hall of fame. and being able to be as good as he was in both baseball and football is no small accomplishment.

[bwana devil]

[ QUOTE ]
Babe Ruth

[/ QUOTE ]

not a baseball fan? /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
Easily Cal Ripken. In his 20 years he hit .265 or less 10 times. He also has the honor of hitting into the most double plays in a career.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct. The glory he gets for his consecutive games record is stupid as well.

[bholdr]

IMO he WAS a great baseball player, he had all the tools and then some, and was looking like he was going to get better and better with age. a five tool player that's in the top ten or so in every category, but with no one spectacular feature (except for his power) is, IMO, a great player.

[slickpoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Easily Cal Ripken. In his 20 years he hit .265 or less 10 times. He also has the honor of hitting into the most double plays in a career.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct. The glory he gets for his consecutive games record is stupid as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree

[Prof. Chaos]

Lance Armstrong.

He rides a [censored] bike and has a ridiculously low resting heart rate.

I repeat, he rides a bike.

[pshreck]

[ QUOTE ]
Lance Armstrong.

He rides a [censored] bike and has a ridiculously low resting heart rate.

I repeat, he rides a bike.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thread over, this is the winner.

[slickpoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
IMO he WAS a great baseball player, he had all the tools and then some, and was looking like he was going to get better and better with age. a five tool player that's in the top ten or so in every category, but with no one spectacular feature (except for his power) is, IMO, a great player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your preaching to the choir with me. Bo is my favorite athlete of all time. I still wear my Bo knows t-shirt all of the time

[JTrout]

Wasn't Sam Bowie drafted ahead of Jordan?

I nominate Sam Bowie.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
Wasn't Sam Bowie drafted ahead of Jordan?

I nominate Sam Bowie.

[/ QUOTE ]

So was Danny Ferry, and he sucked balls

[Prof. Chaos]

plus his last name was ferry.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]

Lance Armstrong.

He rides a [censored] bike and has a ridiculously low resting heart rate.

I repeat, he rides a bike.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
Lance Armstrong.

He rides a [censored] bike and has a ridiculously low resting heart rate.

I repeat, he rides a bike.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a reason he has a ridiculosly low heart rate. You dont get that as some genetic gift, you get that from being a badass.

He has dominated the hardest sporting event in the world for the last 6 years. He's more likely one of the greatest athletes ever as opposed to one of the most overated.

You can say that riding a bike is lame, and he shouldnt be qualified as one of the best athletes in the word based on that. But you cant say he is over rated, because he completely destroys everyone else he rides against. Thats domination, not being over rated

[thatpfunk]

[ QUOTE ]
Easily Cal Ripken. In his 20 years he hit .265 or less 10 times. He also has the honor of hitting into the most double plays in a career.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Correct. The glory he gets for his consecutive games record is stupid as well.



[/ QUOTE ]

[istewart]

Claiming Armstrong is overrated because he "only rides a bike" shows a great deal of ignorance. Lance Armstrong is only overrated because of his American-icon status.

That and those gay bracelets.

[Prof. Chaos]

riding a bike does not take much skill, nor does conditioning ones body. Armstrongs dominates a sport which is all about conditioning and has little to do with athletic ability in comparison to other sports.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
riding a bike does not take much skill, nor does conditioning ones body. Armstrongs dominates a sport which is all about conditioning and has little to do with athletic ability in comparison to other sports.

[/ QUOTE ]

You clearly dont know what you are talking about.

[rusellmj]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
riding a bike does not take much skill, nor does conditioning ones body. Armstrongs dominates a sport which is all about conditioning and has little to do with athletic ability in comparison to other sports.

[/ QUOTE ]

You clearly dont know what you are talking about.

[/ QUOTE ]

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
riding a bike does not take much skill, nor does conditioning ones body. Armstrongs dominates a sport which is all about conditioning and has little to do with athletic ability in comparison to other sports.

[/ QUOTE ]

Someone's mother is being boned by a cyclist.

[PhatTBoll]

[ QUOTE ]
riding a bike does not take much skill, nor does conditioning ones body. Armstrongs dominates a sport which is all about conditioning and has little to do with athletic ability in comparison to other sports.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jesse Owens
Carl Lewis
Jim Thorpe
Michael Johnson

Are these guys all overrated too?

[Jake (The Snake)]

I don't get it. If it's a joke, well, it wasn't funny.

If it's not, well, you're wrong.

Sorry, not trying to be a dick.

[Prof. Chaos]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
riding a bike does not take much skill, nor does conditioning ones body. Armstrongs dominates a sport which is all about conditioning and has little to do with athletic ability in comparison to other sports.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jesse Owens
Carl Lewis
Jim Thorpe
Michael Johnson

Are these guys all overrated too?

[/ QUOTE ]
In comparison to other atheletes, yes.

How about someone like Jackie Robinson or Jim Thorpe, those two guys were excellent in track and field as well as other sports.

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
riding a bike does not take much skill, nor does conditioning ones body. Armstrongs dominates a sport which is all about conditioning and has little to do with athletic ability in comparison to other sports.

[/ QUOTE ]

You clearly dont know what you are talking about.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Don't diss my namesake man. Not cool.

[Prof. Chaos]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
riding a bike does not take much skill, nor does conditioning ones body. Armstrongs dominates a sport which is all about conditioning and has little to do with athletic ability in comparison to other sports.

[/ QUOTE ]

You clearly dont know what you are talking about.

[/ QUOTE ] I think clearly you don't, you have provided nothing to refute what I am saying.

[NLSoldier]

Tom Brady and its not close.

[Jake (The Snake)]

In current day, I'll go with Antoine Walker.

[andyfox]

Are you really Barry Bonds?

[bwana devil]

there are thousands people fighting for the Tour victory, millions of dollars tied into it, countless hours of training and Lance wins it SIX times in a row and you think it is meaningless and it seems anyone could accomplish this. I don't get your logic.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
riding a bike does not take much skill, nor does conditioning ones body. Armstrongs dominates a sport which is all about conditioning and has little to do with athletic ability in comparison to other sports.

[/ QUOTE ]

You clearly dont know what you are talking about.

[/ QUOTE ] I think clearly you don't, you have provided nothing to refute what I am saying.

[/ QUOTE ]

go back and actually read my post. HE HAS DOMINATED THE HARDEST SPORTING EVENT IN THE WORLD, 6 YEARS IN A ROW.

You actually provide some data on why you think hes overrated, not just some BS about how riding a bike is lame., or how any body could be in as good a shape as he is if they wanted two (both statements which I might add, completely break any credibility you have on the subject, which I suspect is close to absolute zero anyway)

[PhatTBoll]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
riding a bike does not take much skill, nor does conditioning ones body. Armstrongs dominates a sport which is all about conditioning and has little to do with athletic ability in comparison to other sports.

[/ QUOTE ]
Jesse Owens
Carl Lewis
Jim Thorpe
Michael Johnson

Are these guys all overrated too?

[/ QUOTE ]

In comparison to other atheletes, yes.

How about someone like Jackie Robinson or Jim Thorpe , those two guys were excellent in track and field as well as other sports.

[/ QUOTE ]

???

[Prof. Chaos]

everyone in the U.S. gets their panties all in a bunch when you say anything about Lance, seriously, he rides a [censored] bike. He even says that he isn't the greatest athlete, says he can't throw a football, shoot a basketball, or even hit a baseball, but for some reason 90% of AMerica has his dick in their mouth because he has won some stupid European sporting event. [censored] you guys. Lance is the best cyclist ever, thats it.

[Vince Young]

Oh, he's overrated because he only participates in one sport. Okay.

[istewart]

The thread is over. Your idiocy has been established.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
everyone in the U.S. gets their panties all in a bunch when you say anything about Lance, seriously, he rides a [censored] bike. He even says that he isn't the greatest athlete, says he can't throw a football, shoot a basketball, or even hit a baseball, but for some reason 90% of AMerica has his dick in their mouth because he has won some stupid European sporting event. [censored] you guys. Lance is the best cyclist ever, thats it.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, great rebutle. You've completely proven me wrong with that awesome logic

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
Tom Brady and its not close.

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm sorry, i think I must have heard you wrong. You meant Peyton manning, right?

[nothumb]

Wrong. First, you don't hear that much about Ripken now that he's retired. Second, he redefined the shortstop position by hitting for power and making an art out of positioning based on pitching, hitters, count, etc. Ripken was mediocre by the end but he is a positive example of a guy who shows up to work every day, has some ethic and heart, etc.

Ripken haters can eat [censored].

NT

[Prof. Chaos]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, he's overrated because he only participates in one sport. Okay.

[/ QUOTE ]no, he is overrated because he participates in a sport which requires very little skill. I am still waiting for someone to prove me wrong. No one has BTW.

Please, someone tell me how cycling is a skillful sport. Its all about conditioning, and if someone has a freakishly large heart, they will excell at it.

[rusellmj]

[ QUOTE ]
Lance is the best cyclist ever, thats it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for proving our point. Being the greatest at anything (even friggin tidlywinks) automatically disqaulifies you from this list.
Now, [ QUOTE ]
[censored] you.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Prof. Chaos]

do you have something to say about Jim Thorpe?

[bwana devil]

Your logic is about on par w/ your manners.

I was going to write a biting response but trolls aren't worth my energy.

bwana

[Prof. Chaos]

you are not bright, at all. You clearly don't understand the phrase, overated.

People like you are exactly why someone like Lance are held in such esteem. People like you are idiot drones who follow whatever the media is force feeding them. Lance is a great cyclist, but is he as great an athlete as the media portrays? No, not at all. Sorry to piss on one of your heroes.

[PhatTBoll]

[ QUOTE ]
do you have something to say about Jim Thorpe?

[/ QUOTE ]

I asked if you thought he was overrated. You replied yes, compared to other athletes. You then gave him as an example of an athlete that is not overrated. So, I repeat:

???

[ttleistdci]

Yao Ming.
I mean, is he even good?

[jason_t]

People get their panties in a bunch over Michael Schumacher too.

[Prof. Chaos]

I do not think Jim Thorpe is overated, if anything I think he is underated and underappreciated by a majority of Americans.

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
Yao Ming.
I mean, is he even good?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, seriously wtf. Knew I was missing someone. I change my vote to Ming.

[Prof. Chaos]

I'll just take this to mean you won't provide me with any evidence to the contrary. Thanks for resorting to personal attacks when you are unable to think of something intelligent to say.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you really Barry Bonds?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your response was the first to make me laugh.
Congratulations, you win!

PS- Yes, it was a joke.
I thought a comment like that would get some fairly interesting responses. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[PhatTBoll]

[ QUOTE ]
Yao Ming.
I mean, is he even good?

[/ QUOTE ]

18/8/2

That at least qualifies him as good. Though I agree he is one of the least reliable players in the NBA.

[JTrout]

oh yeah...and Colin Montgomerie.

[istewart]

No one's hype/contribution ratio is higher than Ming's, currently, if you think about it.

[Prof. Chaos]

[ QUOTE ]
No one's hype/contribution ratio is higher than Ming's, currently, if you think about it.

[/ QUOTE ] Yao Ming may very well be the softest big man in the history of the NBA.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No one's hype/contribution ratio is higher than Ming's, currently, if you think about it.

[/ QUOTE ] Yao Ming may very well be the softest big man in the history of the NBA.

[/ QUOTE ]

Manute Bull

[bd8802]

The answer is clearly Sup Bro. All-county in 1995 when he was projected to be at least all-confrence. Huge disappointment.

/bd

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

SHAQ!!!!!!!

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll just take this to mean you won't provide me with any evidence to the contrary. Thanks for resorting to personal attacks when you are unable to think of something intelligent to say.

[/ QUOTE ]

evidence has been provided, you however have not provided counter evidence. Id go one, but I really cant say it better than Rusellmi's post, so I'll paste it again below

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]



Lance is the best cyclist ever, thats it.

[/ QUOTE ]



Thank you for proving our point. Being the greatest at anything (even friggin tidlywinks) automatically disqaulifies you from this list.
Now,

[ QUOTE ]

[censored] you.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No one's hype/contribution ratio is higher than Ming's, currently, if you think about it.

[/ QUOTE ] Yao Ming may very well be the softest big man in the history of the NBA.

[/ QUOTE ]

Manute Bull

[/ QUOTE ]

No way dude, Bol was leet. I'd say Ming or Muresan (sp).

[Prof. Chaos]

my whole point is that people for some reason think that if because he si the best cyclist ever that he is somehow the greatest atghlete ever, which he isn't. And people do think he is one of the greatest athletes ever, and I am here to say he isn't.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
my whole point is that people for some reason think that if because he si the best cyclist ever that he is somehow the greatest atghlete ever, which he isn't. And people do think he is one of the greatest athletes ever, and I am here to say he isn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

It all depends on how you define ahtletic then. Do you think fat offensive linemen are atheltic? Do you think your average fat baseball player is atheltic? What about any track star ever, all they do is run around in circles? Soccer players? hah, all they do is run around kick a ball.

So basically the only athletic people in this world in your view are like gymnists and NBA point guards?

[pudley4]

David Beckham

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

distance running/cycling is VERY hard. Its pure endurance and mind power, no agility and skill involved. I would consider him one of the best athletes, but its hard to compare that to football or hockey.

[theBruiser500]

Michael Jordon and Isabele Glothy.

[slickpoppa]

either that dan or dave guy from those reebok commercials

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

[ QUOTE ]
Michael Jordon and Isabele Glothy.

[/ QUOTE ]
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

who the hell is isabele glothy?

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
distance running/cycling is VERY hard. Its pure endurance and mind power, no agility and skill involved. I would consider him one of the best athletes, but its hard to compare that to football or hockey.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im not going to argue that cyclists are as athletic as other sports stars, but there is definately a level of agility and skill involved. Have you even seen a big stage race? Its 160 guys on bikes all half an inch from each other. Its SCARY AS HELL to ride in a pack like that, and takes an incredible amount of concentration and bike handling. Its definately alot harder than people give it credit for, and the riders are definately athletes.

[Zoltri]

In football, I would say Ray Lewis.
This convict couldn't carry LT's jockstrap if he tried.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Michael Jordon and Isabele Glothy.

[/ QUOTE ]
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

who the hell is isabele glothy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your search - Isabele Glothy - did not match any documents.

same thing for isabelle too. heh.

[theBruiser500]

Going really fast downhill too. Not sure how fast they get upto, can someone help me on this, 50mph, 60, 70?

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
distance running/cycling is VERY hard. Its pure endurance and mind power, no agility and skill involved. I would consider him one of the best athletes, but its hard to compare that to football or hockey.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im not going to argue that cyclists are as athletic as other sports stars, but there is definately a level of agility and skill involved. Have you even seen a big stage race? Its 160 guys on bikes all half an inch from each other. Its SCARY AS HELL to ride in a pack like that, and takes an incredible amount of concentration and bike handling. Its definately alot harder than people give it credit for, and the riders are definately athletes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didnt say they wernt athletes.

Also, once youre that good, staying in a pack is not that hard.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
Going really fast downhill too. Not sure how fast they get upto, can someone help me on this, 50mph, 60, 70?

[/ QUOTE ]

They will hit close to 70mph on super steep decents.

[Prof. Chaos]

[ QUOTE ]
It all depends on how you define ahtletic then.

[/ QUOTE ] I agree. I really don't want to argue how athletic certain sports are, so basically, I will leave this alone. sorry.

[theBruiser500]

Sorry didn't remember the name right at first: http://www.pasttimesports.biz/history/h24.html

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]

I didnt say they wernt athletes.



[/ QUOTE ]

I wasnt directly responding to you I guess, you just brought it up about skill and agility and stuff, and so I continued with it.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, once youre that good, staying in a pack is not that hard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats alot like saying, once you can do a double back flip handspring with a full twist, its not that hard anymore. Which is true, but it still takes alot of athleticism to be able to get to that point.

[elroyous]

TONY "PILE OF DOGSHIT" MANDARICH

PACKERS COULDVE HAD BARRY

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry didn't remember the name right at first: http://www.pasttimesports.biz/history/h24.html

[/ QUOTE ]

oh yeah, that guy...he sucked!!! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
Please, someone tell me how cycling is a skillful sport. Its all about conditioning, and if someone has a freakishly large heart, they will excell at it.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't think lance is the greatest athlete, but your gross underestimation of cycling baffles me. cycling is a sport and if you are hands down the greatest cyclist in the world, how can you be overrated?

also the comment about the freakishly large heart is kinda lame. wilt chamberlin was freakishly bigger than his peers and that allowed him to dominate his sport. a lot of the great athletes from all sports have some sort of physical attribute to them that made them better than their peers.

[theBruiser500]

Actually I'm just messing with you guys, I made that name Isabelle Blothy up, pretty funny huh?

[JinX11]

Lynn Swann

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually I'm just messing with you guys, I made that name Isabelle Blothy up, pretty funny huh?

[/ QUOTE ]

it had potential.

[Prof. Chaos]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't think lance is the greatest athlete, but your gross underestimation of cycling baffles me. cycling is a sport and if you are hands down the greatest cyclist in the world, how can you be overrated?

[/ QUOTE ] evertyyhing you said I agree with. I do think there are a lot of people that hold him on a pedestal which is ridiculous IMO.

[Soul Daddy]

Brett Favre

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
SHAQ!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Well when you are the most dominate ever, I guess it wouldn't be hard for people to think you're overated.

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i don't think lance is the greatest athlete, but your gross underestimation of cycling baffles me. cycling is a sport and if you are hands down the greatest cyclist in the world, how can you be overrated?

[/ QUOTE ] evertyyhing you said I agree with. I do think there are a lot of people that hold him on a pedestal which is ridiculous IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's ridiculous is that you don't know much about sports. It's sad really.

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
SHAQ!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Well when you are the most dominate ever, I guess it wouldn't be hard for people to think you're overated.

[/ QUOTE ]

hes like a giant 10 year old. He lacks coordination and rules have to be changed because of him. He is simply a giant, he has little skill.

I was impressed w/ his improvement in freethrows. But he still sucks.

[Prof. Chaos]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i don't think lance is the greatest athlete, but your gross underestimation of cycling baffles me. cycling is a sport and if you are hands down the greatest cyclist in the world, how can you be overrated?

[/ QUOTE ] evertyyhing you said I agree with. I do think there are a lot of people that hold him on a pedestal which is ridiculous IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's ridiculous is that you don't know much about sports. It's sad really.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not Robin Ventura!!!!!!!

[Crveballin]

[ QUOTE ]
Wrong. First, you don't hear that much about Ripken now that he's retired. Second, he redefined the shortstop position by hitting for power and making an art out of positioning based on pitching, hitters, count, etc. Ripken was mediocre by the end but he is a positive example of a guy who shows up to work every day, has some ethic and heart, etc.

Ripken haters can eat [censored].

NT

[/ QUOTE ]


Thank you!!! My vote Allen Iverson Career FG% .417

[astroglide]

whoever thinks armstrong is overrated is nuts

[Koller]

[ QUOTE ]
David Beckham




[/ QUOTE ]

[judgesmails]

I actually believe Favre was very underappreciated in his earlier years, even though he was awarded three straight MVPs.

He had a stretch of 16 games, including playoffs and Super Bowl, over two seasons (95-96) where he threw 49 TD and 7 INT.

He has lost his mobility and therefore some of his big play ability, and is no longer a top 5 QB in the league. But, his run of 5 seasons from '94 to '98 would stack up against any QBs 5 yr run in history.

I could agree he is presently overrated, but not all-time overrated.

[NLSoldier]

OMG, I cannot beleive I forgot about Favre!

Brady may have been a slight exaggeration, but I can say with 100% seriousness that Brett Favre is the most overrated athlete ever. Living in MN I saw a ton of Packer games on TV and it is absolutly disgusting how much the announcers slob on his knob. If he throws a pick, its always them reciever's fault for running the wrong route, or the O lines fault for not giving him enough time, or the coaches fault for calling the wrong play, blah blah blah. It seriously makes me want to puke.

Brett Favre=Most overrated athelet ever. End of thread.

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

[ QUOTE ]

Brett Favre=Most overrated athelet ever. End of thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

hahaha

Brett Farve may be over rated, but hes still the [censored].

[judgesmails]

I agree it is disgusting the way announcers slobber all over themselves to praise Favre. It is mostly because they like him as a person, not because he is still a dominant player.

But I assume you are a Viking fan and maybe your judgement of him is a bit clouded by hating the Packers and seeing him play a lot of bad games against MN in the dome.

His career accomplishments are impressive and too many to list.

Currently overrated? Yes. All-time? No way.

[Lazymeatball]

I still think Armstrong is overrated, but it's probably because I'm not a big cycling fan, so i guess I just think cycling is overrated in general. Nobody in the US cared about it until an American started to win it, and we'll never talk about it again once Amrstrong retires or is no longer the best. It reminds me of how we get all excited about olympic sports for a month every four years, putting athletes in commercials and on cereal boxes, and then they fall into obscurity 6 months later.

I'm sure I could create some sport where people just walk a really long distance, like 20 marathons over the course of a month, and I'm sure this sport would produce a more impressive athlete than cycling, but in the end it would be really boring and only freaks who dedicate themselves to training in it would succeed, much like cycling.

[Reef]

Here is ESPN.com's top-10 list of athletes whose reputations most exceed them:

1. Vince Carter, Raptors

2. Mike Tyson, boxer

3. Derek Jeter, NY Yankees

4. All closers in major-league ball

5. Darin Erstad, Anaheim Angels

6. Duval and Mickelson, golf

7. Antoine Walker, Boston Celtics

8. Jake Plummer, Denver Broncos

9. Pavel Bure, New York Rangers

10. Chris Webber, Sac. Kings

[sthief09]

jeter
vince carter

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
Here is ESPN.com's top-10 list of athletes whose reputations most exceed them:

1. Vince Carter, Raptors

2. Mike Tyson, boxer

3. Derek Jeter, NY Yankees

4. All closers in major-league ball

5. Darin Erstad, Anaheim Angels

6. Duval and Mickelson, golf

7. Antoine Walker, Boston Celtics

8. Jake Plummer, Denver Broncos

9. Pavel Bure, New York Rangers

10. Chris Webber, Sac. Kings

[/ QUOTE ]


can't believe I didn't think of Erstad. he's really [censored] overrated. he's terrible but gets paid like he's good and for some reason people think he has value. antoine walker is another good one. I don't think Plummer is that overrated. he sucks but I don't think anyone thinks he's any good. I'd put Tom Brady up there too

[hoyaboy1]

The answer to this question almost has to be a baseball player, since nobody knew how to evaluate them effectively until pretty recently. I'll think for a while and come back later with a good answer.

[B Dids]

That's a pretty good list.

Jeter is WAY up there. He's good, but he's not in the same league as A-Rod or Nomar (and frankly- I think Alex is underrated still).

The people bashing Cal Ripken don't understand that the bulk of his career was playing in an era where offensive numbers were lower.

Rikpin dominated the position, and was far more valuable than other SSs in his era. It's not just games played.

I think Farve is a great example. Good player, but does some horrible things and somehow has a pass.

I think running backs, as a group, are overrated. I think the Denver Broncos are proving that.

[Alobar]

hoyl crap, how could I forget about...

3. Derek Jeter, NY Yankees

[bort411]

3. Sammy Sosa. Most people don't know that he's second all-time in baseball history in strikeouts, one of only 3 players to break the 2000 plateau. Also, he is a dirty cheater.

2. Dan Marino. Follow my logic here: if you attempt more passes than anyone else in the history of football, shouldn't you have the most yards and TDs? He played a long time, threw a ton of passes, and never won a big game. I'm not sure he should even be a hall of famer.

1. Nolan Ryan. 292 career losses. He lost over 47% of his starts. That breaks down to a scoge above league average. Strikeouts are impressive, as are no-hitters. But you'd think over 3 decades a great pitcher could find a way to win more than he lost. Also, 0 Cy Youngs. At no point did anyone ever think he was the best pitcher in half the league in a given season; why is he even considered among the best all time?

[bholdr]

I wasn't saying that he wasn't a great shortstop, a fine human being and a hard working player. I just feel that his legend has been inflated by the streak to the point where his accomplishments are misunderstood.

first ballot for sure, though.

also, he has been quickly overshadowed by the current crop of phenomonal SSs- Tejada, Rodregiuz, Jeter, and Nomar.

[bholdr]

david beckham.

damn straight.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Nolan Ryan

Very, very good pitcher with great longevity, but not one of the top 25 pitchers of all time.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Tyson was overrated, but Marciano is way more overrated.

[PhatTBoll]

[ QUOTE ]
1. Nolan Ryan. 292 career losses. He lost over 47% of his starts. That breaks down to a scoge above league average. Strikeouts are impressive, as are no-hitters. But you'd think over 3 decades a great pitcher could find a way to win more than he lost. Also, 0 Cy Youngs. At no point did anyone ever think he was the best pitcher in half the league in a given season; why is he even considered among the best all time?

[/ QUOTE ]

With the possible exception of Walter Johnson, no pitcher struck more fear in the hearts of opposing batters than Ryan. That's got to be worth something. As far as the losses go, look at some of the teams he played for in his career. Some real stinkers in there.

[BWebb]

I think the top three are:

1. Joe Namath-has anyone looked at his career numbers.
2. Derek Jeter-get's all the hype because he lives in NYC.
3. Champ Bailey-Dude gets burned everytime he's on the field.

Rod Woodson is also in contention for the list.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
Easily Cal Ripken. In his 20 years he hit .265 or less 10 times. He also has the honor of hitting into the most double plays in a career.

[/ QUOTE ]
off the top of my head , this is a good candidate, just because of the streak

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Lance Armstrong.

He rides a [censored] bike and has a ridiculously low resting heart rate.

I repeat, he rides a bike.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thread over, this is the winner.

[/ QUOTE ]
if youre the best at something, how can you be overrated?

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, he's overrated because he only participates in one sport. Okay.

[/ QUOTE ]no, he is overrated because he participates in a sport which requires very little skill. I am still waiting for someone to prove me wrong. No one has BTW.

Please, someone tell me how cycling is a skillful sport. Its all about conditioning, and if someone has a freakishly large heart, they will excell at it.

[/ QUOTE ]
the definition of athlete: A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.
given this definition, how is armstrong overrated?

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the top three are:

1. Joe Namath-has anyone looked at his career numbers.
2. Derek Jeter-get's all the hype because he lives in NYC.
3. Champ Bailey-Dude gets burned everytime he's on the field.

Rod Woodson is also in contention for the list.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeter is overrated but he is still a very good player and a lot of his hype is because of his postseason prowess, not just because he plays in NYC. He still is worth a nomination. Even as a Yankee fan I can say it.

Marino is not overrated.

[ucfryan]

Michael Vick without a doubt.

[Fratony]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
SHAQ!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Well when you are the most dominate ever, I guess it wouldn't be hard for people to think you're overated.

[/ QUOTE ]

hes like a giant 10 year old. He lacks coordination and rules have to be changed because of him. He is simply a giant, he has little skill.

I was impressed w/ his improvement in freethrows. But he still sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]
I dont understand how anyone could possibly believe that Shaq is a horrible athlete. He is one of the most prominent players in the NBA. He is obviously the reason the Lakers were in the final game last year (look at how they are playing now without him) and all of a sudden Miami is good (maybe because Shaq is unstoppable). It doesnt matter if he is slightly uncoordinated, if he has that much impact on a team then he is great. As far as Armstrong goes, yes his sport is lame, but he is the best conditioned athlete IN THE WORLD. I dont understand how he can be overrated in any sense. In fact, i think he is probably the most underrated athlete of all time because no body gives two shits about his sport.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wrong. First, you don't hear that much about Ripken now that he's retired. Second, he redefined the shortstop position by hitting for power and making an art out of positioning based on pitching, hitters, count, etc. Ripken was mediocre by the end but he is a positive example of a guy who shows up to work every day, has some ethic and heart, etc.

Ripken haters can eat [censored].

NT

[/ QUOTE ]


Thank you!!! My vote Allen Iverson Career FG% .417

[/ QUOTE ]
this is another good one!
the guy take like 35 shots a game, no wwonder he scores. and if they started called the carries and turning the ball over, his crossover would be nonexistant

[Jack of Arcades]

He's also one of the ten best shortstops of all time.

My vote: Nolan Ryan.

[Fratony]

Troy Aikmen, why do people like him? He was surrounded by excellent players and he gets all the credit. By the way, why is he still around? Does anyone care what he has to say?

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
He's also one of the ten best shortstops of all time.


[/ QUOTE ]
could be,but like i said , hes overrated because of the streak

[Jack of Arcades]

Erstad's an amazing centerfielder. The problem is he's a first baseman.

[Jack of Arcades]

People think he's one of the best SS of all time, and he's one of the best SS of all time. Ripken's far from overrated.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
People think he's one of the best SS of all time, and he's one of the best SS of all time. Ripken's far from overrated.

[/ QUOTE ]
hes overrated because of the streak

[Fratony]

I change my answer to ALL ATHLETES ARE OVERRATED. For some reason we put athletes, actors, or any celebrity on some sort of pedestal like they are above everyone else. What does it really matter that person X can throw a football 100 yards. When the day is over he really didnt accomplish anything except mearly entertaining me. They're not saving lives or making the world a better place, so why do we make them out to be so great?

Note: I realize athletes often give money to charity and whatnot.

[BWebb]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think the top three are:

1. Joe Namath-has anyone looked at his career numbers.
2. Derek Jeter-get's all the hype because he lives in NYC.
3. Champ Bailey-Dude gets burned everytime he's on the field.

Rod Woodson is also in contention for the list.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeter is overrated but he is still a very good player and a lot of his hype is because of his postseason prowess, not just because he plays in NYC. He still is worth a nomination. Even as a Yankee fan I can say it.

Marino is not overrated.

[/ QUOTE ]

I said Namath, not Marino. Namath's career stats:

Completion %-50%
TD-173
INT-220

This is a hall of famer??

[Duke]

This thread turned into an argument as to what "being an athlete" really is. Why not start a thread on that?

~D

[Arsene Lupin III]

[ QUOTE ]
everyone in the U.S. gets their panties all in a bunch when you say anything about Lance, seriously, he rides a [censored] bike. He even says that he isn't the greatest athlete, says he can't throw a football, shoot a basketball, or even hit a baseball, but for some reason 90% of AMerica has his dick in their mouth because he has won some stupid European sporting event. [censored] you guys. Lance is the best cyclist ever, thats it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think people like him because he was sick for a while and got better and -then- kicked ass and took names in cycling.

Really bad cold or something. Kills a lot of people.

Seriously, tho, he is one of the most inspirational athletes because he's an example of how much you can do for yourself with hard work..

-adam

[Arsene Lupin III]

[ QUOTE ]
I change my answer to ALL ATHLETES ARE OVERRATED.

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't answer the question.

-adam

[Fratony]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I change my answer to ALL ATHLETES ARE OVERRATED.

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't answer the question.

-adam

[/ QUOTE ]
touche

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
Troy Aikmen, why do people like him? He was surrounded by excellent players and he gets all the credit. By the way, why is he still around? Does anyone care what he has to say?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think emmitt smith was waaaay more over rated than troy aikmen. If you put Emmitt on a team that didnt have the best offensive line in the NFL for all those years, he would just been another slightly better than average running back. Look at what barry Sanders did over the same time frame on a team with a crappy line. I don't think troy aikman was all that over rated, its not like everyone was talking about him like he was joe montana or something. He was just a good QB that did his job, and looked really good because he was on a really good team.

Oh yeah, emmitt is also a whiney phuck and has no heart.

[Fratony]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Troy Aikmen, why do people like him? He was surrounded by excellent players and he gets all the credit. By the way, why is he still around? Does anyone care what he has to say?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think emmitt smith was waaaay more over rated than troy aikmen. If you put Emmitt on a team that didnt have the best offensive line in the NFL for all those years, he would just been another slightly better than average running back. Look at what barry Sanders did over the same time frame on a team with a crappy line. I don't think troy aikman was all that over rated, its not like everyone was talking about him like he was joe montana or something. He was just a good QB that did his job, and looked really good because he was on a really good team.

Oh yeah, emmitt is also a whiney phuck and has no heart.

[/ QUOTE ]
I just loathe Aikmen. STOP ANNOUNCING, YOU SUCK. I agree that Emmitt was at least slightly overrated, but any RB with a great O line falls under the same category in my book.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah, emmitt is also a whiney phuck and has no heart.

[/ QUOTE ]
didnt he play a game with a broken arm?

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah, emmitt is also a whiney phuck and has no heart.

[/ QUOTE ]
didnt he play a game with a broken arm?

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt it, he was always too busy running out of bounds to get hurt

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah, emmitt is also a whiney phuck and has no heart.

[/ QUOTE ]
didnt he play a game with a broken arm?

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt it, he was always too busy running out of bounds to get hurt

[/ QUOTE ]
im pretty sure he played a game against the giants with a broken arm or hand or something

[The-Matador]

[ QUOTE ]
Lance Armstrong.

He rides a [censored] bike and has a ridiculously low resting heart rate.

I repeat, he rides a bike.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes because riding a bike is so much less athletic than manipulating a ball of some sort.

[Soul Daddy]

The ballwashing that Favre receives from the media is nothing short of amazing. Derek Jeter is even envious.

He was great for a period of 5 years, one of the best runs ever. He won 1 title, lost another title game and has singlehandedly taken his team out of games for years since.

I just feel like the perception has been created that he's one of the top 5 QB's of all time, and this is clearly not the case. At best he's 7th, and others are on his heels if they win the Lombardi but once.

[SinCityGuy]

Franco Harris, Deion Sanders, Jose Canseco.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
Franco Harris, Deion Sanders, Jose Canseco.

[/ QUOTE ]

Harris I agree with. I am at a loss to understand how the greatest cover corner in NFL history could be overrated. Canseco, yeah, he had a few very good years but not worth the acclaim I guess.

[B Dids]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
People think he's one of the best SS of all time, and he's one of the best SS of all time. Ripken's far from overrated.

[/ QUOTE ]
hes overrated because of the streak

[/ QUOTE ]

ARGH.

THE POINT I JUST MADE WAS THAT THAT'S NOT TRUE.

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
2. Derek Jeter-get's all the hype because he lives in NYC.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure what kind of hype you're talking about... No one says he's the best shortstop in the league, or even close. He's not even the best (true) shortstop on his own team, and no one tries to refute that. Everyone just recognizes him as a very good player, which he is, and as a post-season hero, which he has been. If you're saying he gets the attention befitting the captain of the last great baseball dynasty, then you are correct, but that doesn't make him overrated. He is what he is.

[Clarkmeister]

The problem with overrated/underrated threads is that it's all perception, largely based on your local acquaintances and what media you see/listen to. It's the ultimate subjective argument, and the only real exception is that IMO it's impossible for "all-time greats" to be overrated.

That said, it's almost impossible to have an opinion on anyone who played before you were alive as you have no perspective on how they were "rated" at all, either over or under. That tends to make these discussions useless.

[Jack of Arcades]

But you do have perspective on how they're rated right now.

[Clarkmeister]

Forget all-time, I'm going to stick with currently active athletes since it's easier to agree at how they are "rated", either over or under.

Overrated (no order):

Manning
De La Hoya
Jagr
Knight
Larussa
ACC Basketball
Big 12 Football
Sergio
McGrady

Underrated (no order)
Vijay Singh
Barry Bonds
"Mid Major" NCAA basketball
SEC Football
Bruce Weber
Eric Gagne
The New England Patriots
Bernard Hopkins
Billy Beane
Brad Miller

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
But you do have perspective on how they're rated right now.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you didn't live through it, it's difficult to have proper perspective on their impact IMO. I don't know that anyone who didn't live through the times can truly offer insight as to whether or not (for example) Johnny Unitas was overrated or not.

I think the Hall of Fame is a great example. Anyone who loved baseball in the 1980's (except maybe Andy) would never ever question that Ozzie Smith and Ryne Sandberg were Hall of Famers. It was known. Younger guys who never lived through that time might look at stats, and declare that neither should be in, especially in relation to the numbers we've seen in the last 10+ years. But they'd be wrong.

[Jack of Arcades]

Younger guys who'd look at their stats and declare they shouldn't be in don't know how to look at their stats properly. I'm mostly speaking of baseball, though, which can be better analyzed statistically.

[gvibes]

[ QUOTE ]
Lance is the best cyclist ever, thats it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not so sure about that. Heard of Eddy Merckx?

[razor]

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/d/demoazul.jpg

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
People think he's one of the best SS of all time, and he's one of the best SS of all time. Ripken's far from overrated.

[/ QUOTE ]
hes overrated because of the streak

[/ QUOTE ]

ARGH.

THE POINT I JUST MADE WAS THAT THAT'S NOT TRUE.

[/ QUOTE ]
you did? must have used your other name
if it wasnt for the streak, nobody would ever talk about him
for example, how often do you hear people talking about mike schmidt? he was much better than ripken, no?

[pshreck]

[ QUOTE ]
how often do you hear people talking about mike schmidt? he was much better than ripken, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a really good point, and great evidence that he is in fact overrated because of the streak.

[DontRaisePlz]

With some credit to Cal, he was basically the first shortstop who could consistently hit for power since Ernie and the biggest guy to play good defense at short. For his time, he was extremely valuable and he did pave the way for guys like A-Rod and Jeter. I do agree his legendary status has little to do with his skill, but most baseball analysts, even morons like Jayson Stark, wouldn't dare place him on an All-Time Greats team or even a 3rd ATG team.

Pete Rose on the other hand, the supposed "greatest hitter of all time", was maybe the 3rd/4th best hitter on his own team during it's hey day. He gets my vote.

[Jack of Arcades]

Well, yes.

Mike Schmidt is the best third basmean of all time. He is underrated in that regard.

However, Cal Ripken also played his best years at shortstop. Something Michael Jack never did.

[Clarkmeister]

I don't think anyone has ever called Rose the Greatest Hitter of All Time. The all time hit king, sure, but big difference.

For reference, here's the 76 Reds team stats.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CIN/1976.shtml

[offTopic]

El Diablo...that lucha libre sh[/b]it is all fake.

[IndieMatty]

I might only agree because I am eagerly awaiting the Lance Armstrong backlash...im telling you, for the pure fact he left his wife who stood by him through cancer for that ugly no talent ass clown C-Crow

[FoxwoodsFiend]

Separated his shoulder, which is incredibly painful. Could barely move his arm and rushed for 150+ yards. Wow, I really think we have the right to call him a wuss.

[SinCityGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
I am at a loss to understand how the greatest cover corner in NFL history could be overrated.

[/ QUOTE ]

He was a great cover corner, I'll give you that, but he was a liability in run defense. There are plenty of corners who excelled in all phases of the game, including stopping the run.

[SinCityGuy]

[ QUOTE ]

Overrated (no order):

Big 12 Football


[/ QUOTE ]

There's no question that Oklahoma has layed an egg in the past two National Championship games. However, in the 2000 championship game they shut out Florida State, who at the time was being called one of the greatest offensive juggernauts in college history.

You also must have forgotten about Nebraska's prison rapings of Spurrier's Florida Gators (62-24) and Tennessee with Peyton Manning (42-17).

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Overrated (no order):

Big 12 Football


[/ QUOTE ]

There's no question that Oklahoma has layed an egg in the past two National Championship games. However, in the 2000 championship game they shut out Florida State, who at the time was being called one of the greatest offensive juggernauts in college history.

You also must have forgotten about Nebraska's prison rapings of Spurrier's Florida Gators (62-24) and Tennessee with Peyton Manning (42-17).

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I'm referring to recent history, say last 3-4 years. Otherwise I'd say that Big Ten baskeball was underrated since if I go as far back as you are, the Big Ten was the premier basketball conference for about a 5 year period in the late 90s, early 00s.

[B Dids]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
People think he's one of the best SS of all time, and he's one of the best SS of all time. Ripken's far from overrated.

[/ QUOTE ]
hes overrated because of the streak

[/ QUOTE ]

ARGH.

THE POINT I JUST MADE WAS THAT THAT'S NOT TRUE.

[/ QUOTE ]
you did? must have used your other name
if it wasnt for the streak, nobody would ever talk about him
for example, how often do you hear people talking about mike schmidt? he was much better than ripken, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

There isn't a person alive (who knows anything about baseball) who doesn't consider Schmidt the greatest (at least offensively) 3rd basemen to have every played the game. Since you obviously don't realize that, I'm not sure trying to convince you of anything else is worth while.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
People think he's one of the best SS of all time, and he's one of the best SS of all time. Ripken's far from overrated.

[/ QUOTE ]
hes overrated because of the streak

[/ QUOTE ]

ARGH.

THE POINT I JUST MADE WAS THAT THAT'S NOT TRUE.

[/ QUOTE ]
you did? must have used your other name
if it wasnt for the streak, nobody would ever talk about him
for example, how often do you hear people talking about mike schmidt? he was much better than ripken, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

There isn't a person alive (who knows anything about baseball) who doesn't consider Schmidt the greatest (at least offensively) 3rd basemen to have every played the game. Since you obviously don't realize that, I'm not sure trying to convince you of anything else is worth while.

[/ QUOTE ]
huh? i think youre proving my point? i do realize how good schmidt was, and thats the idea. ripken is heard about much more than than schmidt, and the only reason is because of the Fing streak. much of ripken perceived "greatness" is due to the streak. Since you obviously don't realize that, I'm not sure trying to convince you of anything else is worth while.

[Jack of Arcades]

You realize Cal Ripken was a shortstop, right?

[andyfox]

Ali.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
I might only agree because I am eagerly awaiting the Lance Armstrong backlash...im telling you, for the pure fact he left his wife who stood by him through cancer for that ugly no talent ass clown C-Crow

[/ QUOTE ]

Technically thats not true. He went through several famous hot chicks before he ended up with sheryl crow.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
You realize Cal Ripken was a shortstop, right?

[/ QUOTE ]
yeah, and? what does that have to do with anything? the point is that if it werent for the streak, rarely would he be talked about, and his greatness wouldnt be so great. forgive me for choosing as an example a player who was better than ripken and doesnt get talked about who happened to have not been a ss. i dont think the positions matter.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am at a loss to understand how the greatest cover corner in NFL history could be overrated.

[/ QUOTE ]

He was a great cover corner, I'll give you that, but he was a liability in run defense. There are plenty of corners who excelled in all phases of the game, including stopping the run.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree deon was over rated. he was actually one of the first names that came to mind, I just didnt post it cuz I didnt want to have to get into a battle over what the definition of over rated was.

Was Deon an awesome corner back, hell yes. was he over rated, hell yes. He wasnt as good as all the hype, yet all the teams bought into the hype and would never throw at the guy, thus continuing to perpetuate all the hype. He was a horrible tackler and like you said, a liability against the run.

[Jack of Arcades]

If you don't think the positions matter, then you know far less than you think you do.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't think the positions matter, then you know far less than you think you do.

[/ QUOTE ]
youre not making any sense

[BeerMoney]

I think NoseMar Garciaparra is way overrated. He's always injured and his glove is a nightmare.

[jesusarenque]

Derek Jeter is WAY overrated.

Cal Ripken is underrated. His STREAK is overrated, but as a ballplayer he is underrated because all everyone talks about is his streak. People forget what a good player he was.

[deacsoft]

He's maybe not the all time but I feel I have to mention and make a case for Drew Henson. Many of the athletes that have been mentioned maybe unworthy of the title of being overated. Most of them still hold records and/or have accomplishments like championships and such. Drew Henson has nothing. He started a total of 8 games at QB while attending the University of Michigan. He then goes on to wash up after a couple years in minor league baseball after everyone thought he was going to be awesome. Next Jerry Jones decides that Drew Henson is going to bring the Cowboys back to the glory days by once again playing QB but in the NFL this time. Thank god Parcells stepped up to Jones and told him that Henson blows and landed Bledsoe. This guy has been MEGA HYPED in two different sports and three different times. What does he have to show for it?


Please note: I don't even like the Cowboys.

[ToneLoc]

[ QUOTE ]
You clearly dont know what you are talking about.

[/ QUOTE ]

You guys realise that Cycling is just about who has the best doctor right?

[ToneLoc]

[ QUOTE ]
David Beckham

[/ QUOTE ]

Good one, only the brits fail to understand the guy is useless.

[deacsoft]

[ QUOTE ]
Tom Brady and its not close.

[/ QUOTE ]

An excellent nomination. He's on a great team and has a few rings, but no personal accomplishments. I already know what you're thinking. "But he has 2 Super Bowl MVPs..." He only won them because they play such a team game and no one's stats were outstanding. Meaning: they had no one else to give them to.

[ToneLoc]

Tank Abott

[HesseJam]

[ QUOTE ]
Easily Cal Ripken. In his 20 years he hit .265 or less 10 times. He also has the honor of hitting into the most double plays in a career.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey! Watch it, man!

[HesseJam]

[ QUOTE ]
riding a bike does not take much skill, nor does conditioning ones body. Armstrongs dominates a sport which is all about conditioning and has little to do with athletic ability in comparison to other sports.

[/ QUOTE ]

You, Sir, don't know anything about cycling.

[HesseJam]

[ QUOTE ]
Wrong. First, you don't hear that much about Ripken now that he's retired. Second, he redefined the shortstop position by hitting for power and making an art out of positioning based on pitching, hitters, count, etc. Ripken was mediocre by the end but he is a positive example of a guy who shows up to work every day, has some ethic and heart, etc.

Ripken haters can eat [censored].

NT

[/ QUOTE ]

Correcticut!

[HesseJam]

[ QUOTE ]
distance running/cycling is VERY hard. Its pure endurance and mind power, no agility and skill involved. I would consider him one of the best athletes, but its hard to compare that to football or hockey.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another one, who doesn"t know what he is talking about. Yes cycling is easier than hitting a baseball when you ride to the bakery on Sunday morning to buy some fresh rolls.

Try to do it on a narrow and winding downhill road at 70 mph while overtaking your competitors!

Also, you do not seem to understand the tactical intricacies of this team sport. Even Lance could not win the Tour all by himself (he seems awfully close though). You have to watch your opponent all the time and choose your spot to attac at the right moment. It's like Poker. You need to attack when you have the best of it. You need to captain your team wisely. and so on...

[Shajen]

[ QUOTE ]
Michael Vick without a doubt.

[/ QUOTE ]

????

Do I have to break out the Atlanta wins w/Vick in the lineup vs Atlanta wins w/o Vick in the lineup again?

overrated? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[B Dids]

Doesn't that say a little something about the non-stellar back-up QBs that ATL has?

Vick, at this point, is overrated. Highly.

[Bulldog]

Derek Jeter & Warren Sapp currently (I can't say about all time, I'm not that old!)

I'll defend a couple that were on others' lists: Iverson, Deion, and Peyton Manning.

[Shajen]

[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't that say a little something about the non-stellar back-up QBs that ATL has?

Vick, at this point, is overrated. Highly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, it says two things:

1) If Atlanta wants to win, Vick must play.

2) their backup QBs do suck.

[Fred G Sanford]

[ QUOTE ]
but in the end it would be really boring and only freaks who dedicate themselves to training in it would succeed

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that cycling is an obscure sport. I agree that American don't care about it. Your statement above is ridiculous. Lance Armstrong has some remarkable atheletic abilities. He has a V02 index(lung capacity) greater than most atheletes from any sport.

FGS

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Lance Armstrong.

He rides a [censored] bike and has a ridiculously low resting heart rate.

I repeat, he rides a bike.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thread over, this is the winner.

[/ QUOTE ]

He rides a bike.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Easily Cal Ripken. In his 20 years he hit .265 or less 10 times. He also has the honor of hitting into the most double plays in a career.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Correct. The glory he gets for his consecutive games record is stupid as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

That record should go out the window anyway. As I recall, there were scheduled games he didn't play because he and his fellow overpaid, whiney babies went on strike.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
HE HAS DOMINATED THE HARDEST SPORTING EVENT IN THE WORLD, 6 YEARS IN A ROW.

[/ QUOTE ]

He rides a bike. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
everyone in the U.S. gets their panties all in a bunch when you say anything about Lance, seriously, he rides a [censored] bike. He even says that he isn't the greatest athlete, says he can't throw a football, shoot a basketball, or even hit a baseball, but for some reason 90% of AMerica has his dick in their mouth because he has won some stupid European sporting event. [censored] you guys. Lance is the best cyclist ever, thats it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Riding a bike isn't a sport.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
In football, I would say Ray Lewis.
This convict couldn't carry LT's jockstrap if he tried.

[/ QUOTE ]

He couldn't carry his coke habit either.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Lynn Swann

[/ QUOTE ]

Highly overrated. He sure did have a way of making a catch look easy though.

[wayabvpar]

Michael Vick. He is an incredible natural athlete, but a mediocre-at-best QB. He may learn how to play eventually, but for now I would rather have half the starters in the NFL over him.

I just get so tired of hearing the talking heads fellate him every 5 seconds...give it a break already.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
hoyl crap, how could I forget about...

3. Derek Jeter, NY Yankees

[/ QUOTE ]

That one unbelievable play. Other than that...meh.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Michael Vick without a doubt.

[/ QUOTE ]

How'd we forget him? Definitely on the list!

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
kicked ass and took names in cycling.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is too funny. He rides a bike.

[Shajen]

[ QUOTE ]
Michael Vick. He is an incredible natural athlete, but a mediocre-at-best QB. He may learn how to play eventually, but for now I would rather have half the starters in the NFL over him.

I just get so tired of hearing the talking heads fellate him every 5 seconds...give it a break already.

[/ QUOTE ]

The question stated who is the most overrated ATHLETE, not QB. As a QB, yeah, he gets too much press. As an athlete, however, he's absolutely amazing.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Franco Harris

[/ QUOTE ]

Another good one. Alot of overrated players on that great team.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
People think he's one of the best SS of all time, and he's one of the best SS of all time. Ripken's far from overrated.

[/ QUOTE ]
hes overrated because of the streak

[/ QUOTE ]
ARGH. THE POINT I JUST MADE WAS THAT THAT'S NOT TRUE.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it is.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with overrated/underrated threads is that it's all perception, largely based on your local acquaintances and what media you see/listen to. It's the ultimate subjective argument, and the only real exception is that IMO it's impossible for "all-time greats" to be overrated.

That said, it's almost impossible to have an opinion on anyone who played before you were alive as you have no perspective on how they were "rated" at all, either over or under. That tends to make these discussions useless.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not the problem with them. That's exactly what's fun about them.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
how often do you hear people talking about mike schmidt? he was much better than ripken, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

Also highly overrated.

[razor]

[ QUOTE ]
This is too funny. He rides a bike.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, 2107 miles in 23 days with 189 others, around France - up and down the Alps and Pyrenees.

Tom Brady 'just' throws a football
Roger Clemon 'just' throws a baseball
Barry Bonds 'just' hits a baseball
Markus Naslund 'just' shoots a puck
Kobe Bryant 'just' shoots a basketball
Maurice Greene 'just' runs


Lance 'just' rides a bike... except he does it BETTER than EVERYONE else.

[RogerZBT]

I can see making the argument that Lance Armstrong is overrated, even though I strongly disagree. But arguing that he is the most overrated of all time?!?!

Peyton Manning, Michael Vick, Derek Jeter, Stephon Marbury, Jason Williams (the white, non-murdering one), Adrian Beltre and Carl Pavano, just to name a few are all much overrated today. Of all-time isn't even in the realm of possibility.

And even if you were deadset on saying it was Armstrong, it still couldn't be him. Greg Lemond had the exact same problems (bike-rider, American hype), but Armstrong is arguably the best cycler ever.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
He has a V02 index(lung capacity) greater than most atheletes from any sport.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's how we should define great athletes? By their V02 index? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Besides he's a cheater. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is too funny. He rides a bike.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, 2107 miles in 23 days with 189 others, around France - up and down the Alps and Pyrenees.

Tom Brady 'just' throws a football
Roger Clemon 'just' throws a baseball
Barry Bonds 'just' hits a baseball
Markus Naslund 'just' shoots a puck
Kobe Bryant 'just' shoots a basketball
Maurice Greene 'just' runs


Lance 'just' rides a bike... except he does it BETTER than EVERYONE else.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if I cheated and it made me the greatest tiddley winks player who ever lived and people were constantly acting like I was a great athlete, and paying me for ads, and I was on ESPN continuously, and and in People magazine (for God's sake), etc. etc. etc. then i wouldn't be overrated because I was the best at it? That's dumb.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Michael Vick. He is an incredible natural athlete, but a mediocre-at-best QB. He may learn how to play eventually, but for now I would rather have half the starters in the NFL over him.

I just get so tired of hearing the talking heads fellate him every 5 seconds...give it a break already.

[/ QUOTE ]

The question stated who is the most overrated ATHLETE, not QB. As a QB, yeah, he gets too much press. As an athlete, however, he's absolutely amazing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I get the point, but I think you have to measure them as an athlete based on their sport. You can't just say he's a great athlete even though he sucks at his position in his sport. How else do you measure him? Maybe that V02 oxygen thingy?

[razor]

Jake: all he does is ride a bike

Razor: in a competition over many days covering many miles

Jake: you're dumb he's a cheat

wtf?

[Fred G Sanford]

[ QUOTE ]
That's how we should define great athletes? By their V02 index?


[/ QUOTE ]

My point is that its not like bowling. It takes incredible strength and conditioning to ride at the pace and distance that he rides at. Is that not atheletic?

The idea that someone could just practice hard and be as good as Lance Armstrong at cycling is ridiculous.

FGS

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Jake: all he does is ride a bike

Razor: in a competition over many days covering many miles

Jake: you're dumb he's a cheat

wtf?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually what I said was that if I were called a great athlete and overhyped for being a great tiddley winks player it would be dumb. Just because you're the best at something doesn't mean you can't be overrated.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That's how we should define great athletes? By their V02 index?

[/ QUOTE ]

The idea that someone could just practice hard and be as good as Lance Armstrong at cycling is ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. You have to cheat too.

[razor]

fair enough, but heretofore you've presented no reasonable argument as to how he is overrated...

Saying 'he rides a bike' ignoring the context within which he rides a bike isn't an argument.

Saying 'he cheats' without evidence that he does AND evidence that significant numbers of his competition don't isn't an argument.

Saying 'he's overrated' without demonstrating how his accomplishments don't compare to others isn't an argument.


What is indisputable is that he trains harder and better than the other cyclists and he prepares better than the others, he has the best team and the best team manager. Maybe he is a cheat, but to suggest that his accomplishments are only, or largely, due to cheating ignores the obvious - he works harder and is better prepared than everyone else.

[Fred G Sanford]

[ QUOTE ]
Agreed. You have to cheat too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will agree with you if he is found guilty. One thing though. If he is getting away with it, most of the rest of the field is too as they all have the same resources. Maybe he just cheats better.

[beckham9]

[ QUOTE ]
Lance Armstrong.

He rides a [censored] bike and has a ridiculously low resting heart rate.

I repeat, he rides a bike.

[/ QUOTE ]

you are an idiot, you think its easy to ride a bike?

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
fair enough, but heretofore you've presented no reasonable argument as to how he is overrated...

Saying 'he rides a bike' ignoring the context within which he rides a bike isn't an argument.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. It is. He rides a bike.

[ QUOTE ]
Saying 'he cheats' without evidence that he does AND evidence that significant numbers of his competition don't isn't an argument.

[/ QUOTE ]
Whether his competitors do or not, he's a cheater. Just because they're cheaters doesn't make it o.k. There's no evidence Barry Bonds uses steroids either. What do you think? Anyone with an ounce of sense knows Armstrong is doping. How many people have to get rid of needles for him and either get caught or leak it before people stop kissing his remaining testicle?

[The Bambino]

Well, it's certainly not me.

[crownjules]

[ QUOTE ]
Just because you're the best at something doesn't mean you can't be overrated.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're overrated, that means you are given more credit than you are due. I'm not sure how much extra credit a person that's the best at something can get. If they're the undisputed (or close to it) best at a sport, how can they be overrated?

Back on topic: My vote is for Drew Bledsoe. He was so hyped here in New England, and just turned out to be such a disappointment in the end. One or two shining moments, but thankfully he got injured and that allowed Brady to show his stuff. What a difference. It was like night and day.

[beckham9]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, he's overrated because he only participates in one sport. Okay.

[/ QUOTE ]no, he is overrated because he participates in a sport which requires very little skill. I am still waiting for someone to prove me wrong. No one has BTW.

Please, someone tell me how cycling is a skillful sport. Its all about conditioning, and if someone has a freakishly large heart, they will excell at it.

[/ QUOTE ]

there is a lot of tactics involved in cycling. So you think anyone who swims is not great? anyone who runs? What about if someone is born 7 ft 5, they are probbaly going to prettyh decent at basketball. all great athletes are born with great athletic ability, thats what makes them great atheletes.

[razor]

[ QUOTE ]
He rides a bike.

[/ QUOTE ]

as I said

Naslund shoots a puck
Kobe shoots a basketball
Brady throws a football
Greene runs

whatever... millions upon millions do what these guys do... it's not WHAT they do, it's that they DO it BETTER than most everyone else.


[ QUOTE ]
Whether his competitors do or not, he's a cheater. Just because they're cheaters doesn't make it o.k.

[/ QUOTE ]

But that's not what this discussion is about. It's about whether he is overrated. If Armstrong is the only cheater than his accomplishments are meaningless and he's overrated. But, if most everyone else cheats, then everyone is playing on a more or less even playing field and his accomplishments mean something (at least in comparison to those he is racing against).

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He rides a bike.

[/ QUOTE ]

as I said

Naslund shoots a puck
Kobe shoots a basketball
Brady throws a football
Greene runs

whatever... millions upon millions do what these guys do... it's not WHAT they do, it's that they DO it BETTER than most everyone else.


[ QUOTE ]
Whether his competitors do or not, he's a cheater. Just because they're cheaters doesn't make it o.k.

[/ QUOTE ]

But that's not what this discussion is about. It's about whether he is overrated. If Armstrong is the only cheater than his accomplishments are meaningless and he's overrated. But, if most everyone else cheats, then everyone is playing on a more or less even playing field and his accomplishments mean something (at least in comparison to those he is racing against).

[/ QUOTE ]

In football, the whole exercise is to beat the other team. In a race the object is to beat the other racers AND go as fast as you can (ie. faster than anyone has gone before). His reputation is based not only on winning, but on how fast he goes. It's not only based on his relative performance. It's also based on absolute performance...unlike football.

Besides football is a sport and riding a bike isn't. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[nothumb]

[ QUOTE ]
My point is that its not like bowling.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF, why pick on bowling, there are a lot of 'sports' that require a lot less physical ability. Seriously, none of you are strong enough to bowl professionally, let alone coordinated or focused enough.

NT

[NoPeak]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just because you're the best at something doesn't mean you can't be overrated.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're overrated, that means you are given more credit than you are due. I'm not sure how much extra credit a person that's the best at something can get. If they're the undisputed (or close to it) best at a sport, how can they be overrated?

Back on topic: My vote is for Drew Bledsoe. He was so hyped here in New England, and just turned out to be such a disappointment in the end. One or two shining moments, but thankfully he got injured and that allowed Brady to show his stuff. What a difference. It was like night and day.

[/ QUOTE ]


Yes he is.

[razor]

[ QUOTE ]
His reputation is based not only on winning, but on how fast he goes. It's not only based on his relative performance. It's also based on absolute performance...

[/ QUOTE ]

absolute performance? How is there absolute performance in an event where the course and distance and conditions change every year?

Besides even if they didn't, technological advances in equipment would make year to year comparisons useless.

[RogerZBT]

[ QUOTE ]
Whether his competitors do or not, he's a cheater. Just because they're cheaters doesn't make it o.k. There's no evidence Barry Bonds uses steroids either. What do you think? Anyone with an ounce of sense knows Armstrong is doping. How many people have to get rid of needles for him and either get caught or leak it before people stop kissing his remaining testicle?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it would take more than one person and if I remember correctly, there was one woman making all the claims. (And as for credibility, her claims were weird to the point of making me question them. Like him just handing her a bunch of used syringes to dispose of one day. No explanation why he couldn't throw them away himself or why he never asked her to do it before or since. They made little sense.)

And you can't compare him to Bonds where there is plenty of (mostly circumstancial) evidence including just looking at him.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Besides even if they didn't, technological advances in equipment would make year to year comparisons useless.

[/ QUOTE ]

So no one cares how fast he goes as long as he wins? Oh o.k.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Whether his competitors do or not, he's a cheater. Just because they're cheaters doesn't make it o.k. There's no evidence Barry Bonds uses steroids either. What do you think? Anyone with an ounce of sense knows Armstrong is doping. How many people have to get rid of needles for him and either get caught or leak it before people stop kissing his remaining testicle?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it would take more than one person and if I remember correctly, there was one woman making all the claims. (And as for credibility, her claims were weird to the point of making me question them. Like him just handing her a bunch of used syringes to dispose of one day. No explanation why he couldn't throw them away himself or why he never asked her to do it before or since. They made little sense.)

And you can't compare him to Bonds where there is plenty of (mostly circumstancial) evidence including just looking at him.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. It's been several. He doesn't do it himself because he doesn't want to get caught. Duh! They've found the needles. and have people on film for chrissakes. Is there anything bulletproof in a courtroom? No. But common sense people.

[Fred G Sanford]

[ QUOTE ]
WTF, why pick on bowling, there are a lot of 'sports' that require a lot less physical ability. Seriously, none of you are strong enough to bowl professionally, let alone coordinated or focused enough.


[/ QUOTE ]

Not picking on bowling. Its a fine pursuit and I am sure very difficult to be an excellent bowler. Lets not compare it to riding 200 miles on a bicycle at an average of over 30 mph.

I am quite certain I do not possess the ability to bowl professionally. I am curious what type of strength you are referring to.

FGS

[crownjules]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes he is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahahaha. So funny.

But seriously, you're joking. Right?

[razor]

[ QUOTE ]
No. It's been several. He doesn't do it himself because he doesn't want to get caught. Duh! They've found the needles. and have people on film for chrissakes. Is there anything bulletproof in a courtroom? No. But common sense people.

[/ QUOTE ]

sources?

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No. It's been several. He doesn't do it himself because he doesn't want to get caught. Duh! They've found the needles. and have people on film for chrissakes. Is there anything bulletproof in a courtroom? No. But common sense people.

[/ QUOTE ]

sources?

[/ QUOTE ]

Google it yourself.

[RogerZBT]

[ QUOTE ]
No. It's been several. He doesn't do it himself because he doesn't want to get caught. Duh! They've found the needles. and have people on film for chrissakes. Is there anything bulletproof in a courtroom? No. But common sense people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Common sense. It's common sense that he'd hand the needles to this random person one day, instead of waiting for the person he usually trusted to dispose of them. Even getting rid of them himself makes more sense than that. There are no circumstances where he tales make sense (except LA being the dumbest person in the world, which I don't think anyone believes).

I've never heard of them finding the needles or having any pictures of anything, which to me would actually be pretty bulletproof.

[jesusarenque]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
how often do you hear people talking about mike schmidt? he was much better than ripken, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

Also highly overrated.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mike Schmidt is by far the best third baseman ever. He is highly underrated by most people.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
how often do you hear people talking about mike schmidt? he was much better than ripken, no?

[/ QUOTE ]
Also highly overrated.

[/ QUOTE ]
Mike Schmidt is by far the best third baseman ever. He is highly underrated by most people.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm hoping my sarcasm is broken otherwise you're clearly insane.

[jesusarenque]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
how often do you hear people talking about mike schmidt? he was much better than ripken, no?

[/ QUOTE ]
Also highly overrated.

[/ QUOTE ]
Mike Schmidt is by far the best third baseman ever. He is highly underrated by most people.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'M insane? If you don't agree that Michael Jack Schmidt is the greatest third baseman of all time then you have little understanding as to what makes a good baseball player. Of all the positions on the field, the gap between the best and second best player of all time is probably largest at third base. Mike Schmidt simply dwarfs every other player at that position, and it is not even close. This is not my opinion. It is a provable fact.

I'm hoping my sarcasm is broken otherwise you're clearly insane.

[/ QUOTE ]

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
I'M insane? If you don't agree that Michael Jack Schmidt is the greatest third baseman of all time then you have little understanding as to what makes a good baseball player. Of all the positions on the field, the gap between the best and second best player of all time is probably largest at third base. Mike Schmidt simply dwarfs every other player at that position, and it is not even close. This is not my opinion. It is a provable fact.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was right the second time.

[jesusarenque]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
I'M insane? If you don't agree that Michael Jack Schmidt is the greatest third baseman of all time then you have little understanding as to what makes a good baseball player. Of all the positions on the field, the gap between the best and second best player of all time is probably largest at third base. Mike Schmidt simply dwarfs every other player at that position, and it is not even close. This is not my opinion. It is a provable fact.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was right the second time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Name a better third baseban the Mike Schmidt.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'M insane? If you don't agree that Michael Jack Schmidt is the greatest third baseman of all time then you have little understanding as to what makes a good baseball player. Of all the positions on the field, the gap between the best and second best player of all time is probably largest at third base. Mike Schmidt simply dwarfs every other player at that position, and it is not even close. This is not my opinion. It is a provable fact.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was right the second time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Name a better third baseban the Mike Schmidt.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have to. Even if I couldn't it doesn't make that last statement any less idiotic.

[jesusarenque]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
I'M insane? If you don't agree that Michael Jack Schmidt is the greatest third baseman of all time then you have little understanding as to what makes a good baseball player. Of all the positions on the field, the gap between the best and second best player of all time is probably largest at third base. Mike Schmidt simply dwarfs every other player at that position, and it is not even close. This is not my opinion. It is a provable fact.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was right the second time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Name a better third baseban the Mike Schmidt.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have to. Even if I couldn't it doesn't make that last statement any less idiotic.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't name a better one because there is not one. That statement is not idiotic. You can prove that one player is better than another with statistics. Are you saying I can't use statistics to prove Babe Ruth was better than Mark Lemke?

I hope you are just joking.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
You can prove that one player is better than another with statistics. Are you saying I can't use statistics to prove Babe Ruth was better than Mark Lemke? I hope you are just joking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sad that he seems to actually believe this.

[jesusarenque]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
You can prove that one player is better than another with statistics. Are you saying I can't use statistics to prove Babe Ruth was better than Mark Lemke? I hope you are just joking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sad that he seems to actually believe this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha. Nevermind, dude. I just read some of your other posts. You are a joke, and I'm not the first to say that. You just say crazy, nonsensical things and then refuse to back them up with any evidence whatsoever.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You can prove that one player is better than another with statistics. Are you saying I can't use statistics to prove Babe Ruth was better than Mark Lemke? I hope you are just joking.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sad that he seems to actually believe this.

[/ QUOTE ]
Haha. Nevermind, dude. I just read some of your other posts. You are a joke, and I'm not the first to say that. You just say crazy, nonsensical things and then refuse to back them up with any evidence whatsoever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry but simple statistics don't allow you to compare players across generations. Doesn't work. End of discussion.

[Jack of Arcades]

You can use statistics incorrectly to conclude Lemke was better than Ruth. You can't prove it.

[jesusarenque]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
You can prove that one player is better than another with statistics. Are you saying I can't use statistics to prove Babe Ruth was better than Mark Lemke? I hope you are just joking.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sad that he seems to actually believe this.

[/ QUOTE ]
Haha. Nevermind, dude. I just read some of your other posts. You are a joke, and I'm not the first to say that. You just say crazy, nonsensical things and then refuse to back them up with any evidence whatsoever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry but simple statistics don't allow you to compare players across generations. Doesn't work. End of discussion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it does. You are wrong. There are statistics now that adjust for era, ballpark, and many other variables. Just because you are ignorant of them does not mean they don't exist.

Educate yourself:

www.baseballprospectus.com (http://www.baseballprospectus.com)
www.baseball-reference.com (http://www.baseball-reference.com)

[jesusarenque]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
You can use statistics incorrectly to conclude Lemke was better than Ruth. You can't prove it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can use statistics to prove that Babe Ruth was a better player than Mark Lemke. Well, maybe you can, but there are people out there who can.

[jesusarenque]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En respuesta a:</font><hr />
You can use statistics incorrectly to conclude Lemke was better than Ruth. You can't prove it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can use statistics to prove that Babe Ruth was a better player than Mark Lemke. Well, maybe you can't, but there are people out there who can.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes it does. You are wrong. There are statistics now that adjust for era, ballpark, and many other variables. Just because you are ignorant of them does not mean they don't exist.

Educate yourself:

www.baseballprospectus.com (http://www.baseballprospectus.com)
www.baseball-reference.com (http://www.baseball-reference.com)

[/ QUOTE ]

I could artificially manipulate a way to compare you and a gopher that would show you were smarter, but it still isn't so.

[Jack of Arcades]

We cannot compare them with total clarity, just like we cannot compare players from the 90s to players in the 80s with total clarity. However, we can get a pretty good picture of the value of their accomplishments (we aren't talking skill here, just value).

The trick is not to compare the raw numbers. You compare their numbers first against the league they played in, then you compare their performance in that context.

[Jack of Arcades]

Whoops. re-read the string of posts. I read yours incorrecly and you read mine incorrectly.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
We cannot compare them with total clarity, just like we cannot compare players from the 90s to players in the 80s with total clarity. However, we can get a pretty good picture of the value of their accomplishments (we aren't talking skill here, just value).

The trick is not to compare the raw numbers. You compare their numbers first against the league they played in, then you compare their performance in that context.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure you can do all that. But all you've done is compared them. You haven't proven anything. It can't be done.