Protect or Value? When to protect?

[JKDStudent]

I'm going to make up a hypothetical situation. Don't put too much stock in the exact cards I list, but rather to the general situation I describe.

KJo on the flop with no pre-flop raising. Flop is something like this:

J/images/graemlins/spade.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif

Board is uncoordinated, and Hero has top pair, good kicker. Assume around 5 players, including the blinds. So, what's the best move? Here are my three options:

Bet for value.
Bet for protection.
Check with the intent to bet on the turn for protection, since the larger bet is more likely to get people out.

In which cases should each of those options be used, in general? Top pair lower kicker? More coordinated board?

[Mike]

You might say limit or no limit and what limit if limit. Someone may then reply with an answer.

[DemonDeac]

what kind of opponents are there?

[JKDStudent]

Limit. As for opponents... I want to keep this as general as possible. So we'll assume low-limit players. $2-$4 and below. Loose, more passive than they should be.

[GrandmaStabone]

*My first post*
Well I'd agree that your question is not well stated. You say that you want to "be as general as possible", but poker is not about being general, it's the technical factors (i.e. your reads, position, past hands, etc.) that will determine the right course of action. But, speaking GENERALLY - I would bet for value here, the board is uncoordinated, so a bet for protection is not even an issue. Furthermore, with the "loose, passive" opponents you described, you have good reason to believe your kicker is good and will probably just get called down with a 1/2 player holding onto his j9 of spades. At this point, until I feel a shift in momentum - it's a value bet.

[Niediam]

When you have a weak made hand (such as top pair) betting is almost always both for value and protection.

When you have strong draw betting can be for value or for protection depending on the situation. Couple examples:

You flop the nut flush draw. UTG bets, UTG+1 raises, and two people call both bets cold. You would want to raise here for value as you are putting 20% of the money in when you have about a 35% chance of making your hand.

Two players in EP limp and you limp in MP with A4s. Button raises, blinds fold, and limpers all call. Flop is T62 with two of your suit. EP bets and other limper calls. Here you want to raise in the hope that the button will fold a hand such as AK and you can 'buy' two additional outs (the last two aces in the deck).

Two limpers and you limp on the button with A2s. Flop is Q72. Everybody checks to you. You should bet. You may or may not have the best hand here but you certainly don't want to give other hands a free shot at beating you as literally every hand will have outs. In addition, betting here may will often make a better hand such as 44 or a weak 7 to fold.

You should rarely wait for the turn before making your move. Doing so is most applicable when you are trying to slowplay (which should rarely be attempted), when a bet/raise on the flop cannot possibly protect your hand (usually because the pot is very large), or because your hand can easily be destroyed by the turn (having T9 on a flop of JTs9 for example).

[JKDStudent]

Thanks, Niediam. Just what I was looking for.

I'd have re-read my SSH and HPFAP, but a friend is borrowing both at the moment. I appreciate the response.

[GrandmaStabone]

Hey, what about me - I gave advice too.... /images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Anyways, Niedam did say it perfectly, it's all about pot equity, and if you have SSH your familiar.

Up to 2 posts now, watch out guys........