Label The Bad Beats

[IggyWH]

I see people label hands as bad beats all the time, some of which I agree with and some of which I don't. I'm going to give several hand examples and I want you to tell me which are bad beats, which are not and why you think that way.

1)Hero has KK, Villian has AA
Flop : 89T
Turn : 6
River : 2

Villian wins with pair of Aces

2)Hero has KK, Villian has AA
Flop : AKK
Turn : 9
River : A

Villian wins with quad Aces

3)Hero has KK, Villian has AA
Flop : 2KK
Turn : A
River : A

Villian wins with quad Aces

4)Hero has AA, Villian has KK
Flop : AKT
Turn : 9
River : K

Villian wins with quad Kings.

5)Hero has KK, Villian has QQ
Flop : 789
Turn : 2
River : Q

Villian wins with 3 of a kind Queens.

6)Hero has QQ, Villian has KK
Flop : KQ9
Turn : 2
River : 3

Villian wins with 3 of a kind Kings.

7)Hero has AsKc, Villian has 8d9d
Flop : AdKdTs
Turn : 7s
River : 2d

Villian wins with an ace high flush.

8)Hero has AsKc, Villian has 8d9d
Flop : AdKsTs
Turn : 7d
River : 2d

Villian wins with an ace high flush.

9)Hero has AsKc, Villian has 8d9d
Flop : QdJdTs
Turn : 7s
River : 2d

Villian wins with a Queen high flush.

10)Hero has QsQc, Villian has KdKh
Flop : Qh9h7h
Turn : 2s
River : 3h

Villian wins with a King high flush.

[wAzZu24]

Are these all-in preflop?

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
Are these all-in preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't worry about betting or if you agree or don't agree that someone would stay in the hand that long. Just consider the cards and how they fell. Was Hero bad beat in those hands?

[TGoldman]

Swap the title "hero" and "villain" and that's what I call skill. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Seriously, the villain didn't play poorly in those hands other than perhaps hand 8. They're bad beats for sure, but I consider those hands more fate in which lady luck decided she wanted to bust you and there's nothing you can do to get away from it. Unless of course this was a bad beat jackpot table and then lady luck I /images/graemlins/heart.gif you.

[shandrakor]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't worry about betting or if you agree or don't agree that someone would stay in the hand that long. Just consider the cards and how they fell. Was Hero bad beat in those hands?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think that betting can be ignored, since the way I define a "bad beat" is when you play well, but the other guy played crappy, and he beat you. But maybe I'm wrong to consider "sucking out" and "bad beat" to be the same thing.

The only hand I can't imagine being played well by both players is hand 8...on the flop the guy with 89 just doesn't have enough of a draw to stick around against the guy who obviously raised preflop.

All that said, there's plenty of *painful* beats here, I just don't consider them to be "bad" beats.

[IggyWH]

If you've wondered why I made this thread, it stems back to a post I made about a week ago :

LINK (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=inet&Number=1755491&Fo rum=All_Forums&Words=%2Bbad&Searchpage=0&Limit=25& Main=1750551&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=18285& daterange=1&newerval=1&newertype=m&olderval=&older type=&bodyprev=#Post1755491)

The post I made was in response to someone saying they got bad beat when they held KK and the flop was AAK and they were drawing dead. I made a comment about how are you drawing dead, only AK has them beat.

I took some crap for saying only AK has you beat because I eliminated Villian holding AA. I did this on purpose because to me, if Villian was holding AA, that isn't a bad beat.

To me, if you're playing KK against someone else playing AA, then if you lose, no matter how you lose, it's not a bad beat. Villian is supposed to win that hand, just the poker Gods might take a ass-backwards way in Villian winning the hand.

Same with anytime one hand is dominating another preflop. No matter what ass-backwards way is taken by the cards, as long as in the end the dominated hand still loses, then it's not a bad beat.

[Brainwalter]

Flopping quads and losing to runner-runner quads is a bad beat. Are you saying the AA deserved to win so it's not a bad beat? AA had a 4-1 edge preflop, but KK had a 990-1 or so edge on the flop, and lost. That's a bad beat. (I'm talking about the hand where the board is KKxAA)

[lorinda]

A week ago? Post thief!!! (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=singletable&Number=1195475 &Forum=All_Forums&Words=%2BAA%20%2BKK%20&Searchpag e=0&Limit=25&Main=1195128&Search=true&where=bodysu b&Name=22&daterange=1&newerval=1&newertype=y&older val=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post1195475)

Lori

[bholdr]

IMO, a bad beat is when one gets their money in when their way ahead, and then gets drawn out on. so, it all depends on when the players got their checks in.

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
Flopping quads and losing to runner-runner quads is a bad beat. Are you saying the AA deserved to win so it's not a bad beat? AA had a 4-1 edge preflop, but KK had a 990-1 or so edge on the flop, and lost. That's a bad beat. (I'm talking about the hand where the board is KKxAA)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that is what I'm saying. Like I said, to me, it's not a bad beat, just an unfortunate beat (unless on a BBJ table). Poker took a very ass-backwards route in the hand, but in the end, the hand ended up like it should have most of the time (about a 5-to-1 dog).

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
IMO, a bad beat is when one gets their money in when their way ahead, and then gets drawn out on. so, it all depends on when the players got their checks in.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is another thing I don't agree with. Why is money a factor in a bad beat?

So if Hero had AA and Villian had KK, the hand was checked off to the river where a King landed, Hero isn't bad beat?

That I don't agree with. Just because someone might play bad in a hand to me doesn't mean they can't get bad beat.

[M2d]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is money a factor in a bad beat?

[/ QUOTE ]
Because if you're ahead, slowplay, and get bitten in the butt, it's a stupidity beat, not a bad beat. Similarly, if the casino had some promotion and there was a 1000 big bet seed in the pot to start out, none of them are bad beats.

[Muisyle]

Only thing that matters is when the money goes in.

If you have KK and villian has AA:

1) All money goes in preflop, not a bad beat no matter what happens (even if you flop quads and he runner runner's quads)

2) KKA flop, you check, turn is an A, you get all in, not a bad beat.

3) KKA flop, you get all in on the flop, he turns or rivers an A, bad beat.

[FlFishOn]

.