Are you addicted? 20 questions courtesy of GA

[TGoldman]

Since many people on here have argued poker is gambling, I took the 20 Questions from Gambler's Anonymous (http://www.gamblersanonymous.org/20questions.html) and simply replaced the words 'gamble' or 'gambling' with 'poker.' By their estimation, most compulsive gamblers answer yes to at least seven of the questions. Looks like I have a problem! /images/graemlins/blush.gif

1. Did you ever lose time from work or school due to poker?
2. Has poker ever made your home life unhappy?
3. Did poker affect your reputation?
4. Have you ever felt remorse after poker?
5. Did you ever play poker to get money with which to pay debts or otherwise solve financial difficulties?
6. Did poker cause a decrease in your ambition or efficiency?
7. After losing did you feel you must return as soon as possible and win back your losses?
8. After a win did you have a strong urge to return and win more?
9. Did you often play poker until your last dollar was gone?
10. Did you ever borrow to finance your poker?
11. Have you ever sold anything to finance poker?
12. Were you reluctant to use "poker money" for normal expenditures?
13. Did poker make you careless of the welfare of yourself or your family?
14. Did you ever play poker longer than you had planned?
15. Have you ever played poker to escape worry or trouble?
16. Have you ever committed, or considered committing, an illegal act to finance poker?
17. Did poker cause you to have difficulty in sleeping?
18. Do arguments, disappointments or frustrations create within you an urge to play poker?
19. Did you ever have an urge to celebrate any good fortune by a few hours of poker?
20. Have you ever considered self destruction or suicide as a result of your poker?

[Jurollo]

Haha, I have taken this before and answered like 13 Yes. Ooops!
~Justin

[TGoldman]

My favorite was #12. What most poker professionals consider prudent advice could also be regarded as a sign of an addiction.

[vegasforest]

Hello, my name is ______. It's been seven hours since I played a hand and left the house to go to work.

[bdk3clash]

I think the GA model kind of breaks down for people that are capable of playing poker profitably, like many of the posters here. I'm sure plenty of poker players kid themselves and fit the characteristics of a traditional problem gambler, but for winning players it's a lot more complicated. Some of the problem gambling symptoms might be present, but the fact that someone is winning money as opposed to losing it shouldn't just be brushed off.

I wouldn't play poker if I wasn't making money at it. It's not that much fun.

[Caruso329]

1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Yes
4) Yes
5) No (But yes soon, looking to play pro over the summer)
6) Yes
7) Yes
8) Yes
9) No
10) Yes
11) No
12) Yes
13) No
14) Yes
15) No
16) No
17) Yes
18) No
19) No
20) No

11 and a possible 12...
I have a gambling problem, nothing I didn't already know.
But like someone said above, I'm not a losing player, so what's the big deal?

[TGoldman]

Are you saying poker isn't gambling?!!?? Just kidding. You're right, the post is mostly tongue in cheek. It does, however, point out that even though poker is a form of gambling, there is definitely a difference underlying the mentality between a serious poker player and your run of the mill gambler.

[Uglyowl]

This is crap. GA puts questions everyone will answer yes to so they get more business.

Take for example:

8. After a win did you have a strong urge to return and win more?

14. Did you ever play poker longer than you had planned?

20. Have you ever considered self destruction or suicide as a result of your poker?

I mean who the hell doesn't want to win more and who doesn't think of jumping out the window when you take a bad beat and realize poker is rigged.

-Joe

DISCLAIMER- I was kidding about #20, it is a joke /images/graemlins/smile.gif Don't worry about me folks.. I am a whore and loving life!

[Voltron87]

I had a gambling problem by question 8. I answered yes to all but 7, 10, 11, and 20.

[bholdr]

fun post. i aggree that i have a big problem, if this does apply. but, it doesn't. I'm sure the good folks at GA would include poker under gambling, though.

5. Did you ever play poker to get money with which to pay debts or otherwise solve financial difficulties?

all the time. poker is beatable. this question implies the assumption that it's not.

12. Were you reluctant to use "poker money" for normal expenditures?

i think this would show good money managment, not problem gambling.

14. Did you ever play poker longer than you had planned?
only if the game's good.

I think the basic problem with these questions is the assumption that poker is gambling, in the same way slot machines and roulette are gambling. they ignore the fact that poker is only gambling to those that don't understand it. there are definitly people out there that have a big problem with poker, but the best question to ask them to find out if they have a problem wasn't even asked:

1A: do you continue playing poker even though you lose far more money than you a: win, and b: can afford to lose?

[Voltron87]

I think this raises an interesting question, can winning players be compulsive and problem gamblers? I myself am a winning player but I can see how in many ways poker has affected me "negatively" the same way it affects a compulsive, degenerate and problem gambler, except the sign in front of the numbers is positive and not negative.

Of course, when I think about it, it has also affected me negatively the way high paying law/medical etc jobs affect an overworked husband who loses time with his family to make six figures. Interesting stuff.

[lorinda]

MSSunshine's replies (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=135245&page=&view=&sb=5&o =&fpart=all&vc=1)

Lori

[Voltron87]

Poker is a gambling game. It involves a lot of money decisions and wagering. It is a gambling game with an element of skill. But to say "Poker isn't gambling" and leave it at that is bad logic.

I think the real problem with these that poker can be an enriching experience, both as a hobby and a source or income, and the survey neglects the benefits it has. And the questions are worded badly. Read my post below this as to the "problem gambler winning player issue".

[lorinda]

lorinda's replies (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=inet&Number=361236&Forum=A ll_Forums&Words=%2Breputation%20%2Burge%20%2Bwelfa re&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=360541&Search=true&w here=bodysub&Name=&daterange=1&newerval=4&newertyp e=y&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post361236)

Lori

[emonrad87]

Poker is gambling. Period. But that's not to say it isnt beatable, it clearly is. It's still gambling.


Also, if the average party fish was to answer yes to all these questions, then there would be a problem. But frankly, I'm surprised how many questions you guys said yes to. I said yes to 2 of them.

Edit - actually, I realized why i answered yes to so few of them... cuz I'm still in high school living as a dependant. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[ClaytonN]

I'm only guilty of 1 and 17

I guess this means I'm somewhat normal (?)

[Jurollo]

Clayton it makes you normal in the 'real world' but a degenerate here /images/graemlins/grin.gif
~Justin

[ClaytonN]

It's odd, because I'm such an obsessive-compulsive person and I'm matching up with so few characteristics of a compulsize gambler.

I know poker is gambling, but I also know I have an edge at the levels I play. I play a lot, I think about it a lot, but I'm not nearly this bad.

1) Yes, but also partly due to im a 2nd semester high school senior who already knows where he is going to college
2) No
3) No, less than 5 people at my school even know I play it. And my parents are cool with it because I make more at it than I did at Best Buy.
4) Define remorse?
5) The one time I had a debt (fender bender) I paid it off with afforementioned Best Buy work
6) Nope
7) Sometimes, yes, but I control that urge
8) I'll stay in a session if it's that good a game, but when I'm done I'm done.
9) Huh? No! I don't go broke.
10) No
11) No
12) I am right now, but that's only because my roll is still under $1,000 and I plan to make much more long run.
13) No
14) Only if I'm doing well at a tournament and it's 2 AM /images/graemlins/grin.gif
15) If I am, I don't know it
16) Nope
17) Sometimes, from afformentioned 2AM tournament
18) I don't play poker when angry
19) Nope
20) HAH! No

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
This is crap. GA puts questions everyone will answer yes to so they get more business.

Take for example:

[/ QUOTE ]

3. Did poker affect your reputation?

this one too..... c'mon everything you do affects your reputation!

[esknights]

I answered yes to two of those questions. Guess I am good to go for awhile.

[Greg J]

I'm a little surprised at the ammount of people here too. I answered yes to 3. Who hasn't had a little trouble sleeping thinking about cards though? (I have issue sleeping anyway.)

[Shoe]

Like others have said, all serious players who make a living or extra income from poker are going to be somewhat compulsive. I also think that most of us would quit playing (those of us who study our game and carefully track our results), if it became apparent that we were a losing player.

1. Yes, assuming that quitting my job to play poker counts as losing time from work.
2. I'm counting this as a yes, since losing streaks can take a toll on me.
3. Yes, I am known as the idiot who quit his good paying job who is now destined to failure (even though I am winning).
4. No
5. Yes, considering it is now my sole source of income.
6. Yes and no, I can't imagine ever going back to a job, but I still work hard and am as ambitious as ever, and i'm becoming more efficient as I play more and more tables. With that being said going to count this one as no.
7. Absolutely. Unless I really get my ass handed to me, then I might take a couple days off.
8. Absolutely.
9. Nope, and hopefully never will.
10. No, and never will.
11. No, and never will.
12. Yes, I prefer to use good bankroll management.
13. No, I am destined to be single forever.
14. Of course.
15. No, atleast not that I'm aware of.
16. No, i'm too honest for my own good.
17. No, I don't think so, but I normally have trouble sleeping.
18. No
19. No, I have had the urge to go celebrate my good fortunes in poker though.
20. No

So that gives me a score of 7. I could have possibly answered yes on 2-3 of the others, but they were a bit iffy.

[threadkiller]

Answered yes to 4, 14, and maybe 15. But I could say the same thing by replacing the word "poker" with "eating Taco Bell" or "reading my favorite travel discussion board." (In fact, one of the nice side effects of playing online is that I eat less on evenings when I play a couple of hours online!)

So what the **** does that prove?

[MrX]

Would you consider a career in sales "gambling?"

It seems that many of our established "jobs" are really gambling in some way or another.

[MicroBob]

Haven't read Lorinda's and MSSunshine's replies yet. I am guessing many of mine will not be unsimilar.
Went over these earlier tonight with my GF. We were quite amused.


1. Did you ever lose time from work or school due to poker?
Actually...this is probably a no.

2. Has poker ever made your home life unhappy?
Yes...Sometimes the losing streaks REALLY suck.

3. Did poker affect your reputation?
Yes....For example, If I were to apply for a job in today's workplace I have to consider how they would react if I said "I'm a professional poker player." I think it affects my reputation.

4. Have you ever felt remorse after poker?
No.

5. Did you ever play poker to get money with which to pay debts or otherwise solve financial difficulties?
Yes. I pay the rent and all my bills by playing poker.

6. Did poker cause a decrease in your ambition or efficiency?
Yes. The simple nature of poker to be able to grind out a living at low-limits makes it difficult to find the motivation to fulfill my potential to become a better player at the higher limits. It's just too easy to not take the significant risks or put forth the serious study-time.

7. After losing did you feel you must return as soon as possible and win back your losses?
Yes...but not immediately. but I have often-times thought "well...I've lost the past couple days and I DO have bills to pay so I guess I better get at it again."

8. After a win did you have a strong urge to return and win more?
Yes. I oftentimes tell myself "I can't just let myself cut my work-week short just because things have been going well. I should play more and hopefully continue to grind-out more wins."

9. Did you often play poker until your last dollar was gone?
No.

10. Did you ever borrow to finance your poker?
Yes. My Dad wants to stake me $1000 on the party cruise.

11. Have you ever sold anything to finance poker?
Yes. My whole income is part of my poker bankroll. If I sell an old TV or a couple of used books for $10 then this income goes into my total 'roll' which essentially is used to 'finance poker'.

12. Were you reluctant to use "poker money" for normal expenditures?
Yes....I'm reluctant to make my normal expenditures PERIOD. And all of my 'normal' expenditures come from 'poker money'.
I get a bill from the gas/electric company and I'm reluctant to pay it because I simply don't like paying bills and I think I'm getting ripped-off.

13. Did poker make you careless of the welfare of yourself or your family?
Yes. You should have seen the amount of coffee I consumed during my raked-hands marathon week promotion for example. I completely disregarded my own welfare during this stretch. I also blame poker for my medicore diet and lack of exercise (although prior to poker I had a variety of other excuses....but it's all poker's fault now).

14. Did you ever play poker longer than you had planned?
Yes. Happened just the other night for example. I had already decided to play 'one last tournament' before turning in. Didn't really expect to go very far but I reached the final table which was certainly a better finish than I had 'planned'. There have also been nights where I forced myself to stay in games with super-fish no matter how tired I was. One of these was last year with the P.O.T. smoker who now posts here as brown-thumb.

15. Have you ever played poker to escape worry or trouble?
Yes. If I don't play poker than I will be in serious trouble and will be worried about paying the bills (among other things). I play poker so that I can escape the worry of having no money to my name.

16. Have you ever committed, or considered committing, an illegal act to finance poker?
Yes. Technically the act of playing online-poker in is illegal in and of itself in some states.
I've also played in private-games for real-money (dimes and quarters) that I'm not sure are technically legal or not.

17. Did poker cause you to have difficulty in sleeping?
Yes. The fleixibility of my work-schedule sometimes leads to some strange work-hours.

18. Do arguments, disappointments or frustrations create within you an urge to play poker?
Yes. I get disappointed if I know I play a hand badly and expect better of myself. I get an urge to study...and to try again and get it right. This is essentially how I have been able to improve my game.

19. Did you ever have an urge to celebrate any good fortune by a few hours of poker?
no. Typically I'll celebrate good fortune FROM poker with a few hours (or longer) of NOT playing poker. For example...when I learned that I had won the party-cruise I celebrated in a non-poker fashion.

20. Have you ever considered self destruction or suicide as a result of your poker?
See the previous response on all the coffee I drank during the raked-hands marathon. If that wasn't self-destruction then I don't know what is.


Looks like I have a serious addiction.

[Pokeraddict]

I am not addicted to poker!!!!

[JackWilson]

A lot of these questions cannot just be changed to say "poker" instead of "gambling" because even though poker might be a form of gambling, it is very different from most other forms of gambling in the sense that for a number of players it is a +EV endeavour. Questions like:

5. Did you ever play poker to get money with which to pay debts or otherwise solve financial difficulties?

11. Have you ever sold anything to finance poker?

12. Were you reluctant to use "poker money" for normal expenditures?

and

14. Did you ever play poker longer than you had planned?

are questions to which a positive answer would be considered worrisome if we were talking about -EV gambling but in the case of poker there are very good logical and rational explanations for all of these.

[Reef]

and I'm addicted... so what's your point?

[Gator]

They have these twenty questions to see if you are addicted and they make it way to easy to qualify!
(this is not an original quote, but I like it)

[underaged]

1. Did you ever lose time from work or school due to poker?
12. Were you reluctant to use "poker money" for normal expenditures?



Yes to both. No to the rest.

[dogmeat]

1. Did you ever lose time from work or school due to poker? No, I quit school and my job.
2. Has poker ever made your home life unhappy? No, I have no home life.
3. Did poker affect your reputation? No, I am still considered a dirtbag.
4. Have you ever felt remorse after poker? No, but I felt her sister, Betty Morse.
5. Did you ever play poker to get money with which to pay debts or otherwise solve financial difficulties? Every day.
6. Did poker cause a decrease in your ambition or efficiency? I don't think I can finish this list. Wait, I already answered this.
7. After losing did you feel you must return as soon as possible and win back your losses? Only when I lose.
8. After a win did you have a strong urge to return and win more? Every day.
9. Did you often play poker until your last dollar was gone? Hasn't happened yet.
10. Did you ever borrow to finance your poker? How can you borrow to finance something with a loan? I thought financing was a loan.
11. Have you ever sold anything to finance poker? Yes, but no more street-walking.
12. Were you reluctant to use "poker money" for normal expenditures? Is two-weeks in Hawaii normal?
13. Did poker make you careless of the welfare of yourself or your family? No, we are off welfare.
14. Did you ever play poker longer than you had planned? Just since 1978.
15. Have you ever played poker to escape worry or trouble? Quiet, I'm trying not to think about worries.
16. Have you ever committed, or considered committing, an illegal act to finance poker? Well, not illegal in every state.
17. Did poker cause you to have difficulty in sleeping? ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ....
18. Do arguments, disappointments or frustrations create within you an urge to play poker? What, Shut up, its so frustrating hearing crap like that. I gotta take a break and go to Party.
19. Did you ever have an urge to celebrate any good fortune by a few hours of poker? Yes, I had the good fortune to marry a wonderful lady and I've been playing poker ever since.
20. Have you ever considered self destruction or suicide as a result of your poker? Whoa, NO! But I think I've caused it.

Well, not my best, but I'm multi-tabling right now to get over my depression about not being able to sleep and about that jewelry store heist.

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[Stageleft]

were all addicts and we all love it!!!! Let the poker gods shine on us all....

[MicroBob]

Just checking:

1. Did you ever lose time from work or school due to 2+2?
Yes. I'm keeping myself from the tables right now.

2. Has 2+2 ever made your home life unhappy?
No.

3. Did 2+2 affect your reputation?
Yes.

4. Have you ever felt remorse after 2+2?
No.

5. Did you ever use 2+2 to get money with which to pay debts or otherwise solve financial difficulties?
Yes. It made me a better player

6. Did 2+2 cause a decrease in your ambition or efficiency?
Yes. I'm surfing silly stuff in the Zoo or OOT more than I should be.

7. After losing (an argument on 2+2) did you feel you must return as soon as possible and win back your losses?
Yes. I must put those other posters in their place!!

8. After a win (of an argument on 2+2) did you have a strong urge to return and win more?
Yes. I want to beat my detractors into the ground.

9. Did you often stay on 2+2 until your last dollar was gone?
Ummmmm.....no. Sorry.

10. Did you ever borrow to finance your 2+2?
No.

11. Have you ever sold anything to finance 2+2?
no.

12. Were you reluctant to use "2+2 money" for normal expenditures?
no.

13. Did 2+2 make you careless of the welfare of yourself or your family?
Yes. Again....I spend more time here than I should and it keeps me from the tables.

14. Did you ever stay on 2+2 longer than you had planned?
Yes. right now for example.

15. Have you ever 2+2'ed to escape worry or trouble?
Yes...I think so.

16. Have you ever committed, or considered committing, an illegal act to finance 2+2?
Yes. i've seriously considered inflicting bodily harm on spammers and other trolls.

17. Did 2+2 cause you to have difficulty in sleeping?
Yes....sometimes I stay up later than normal just posting and surfing around.

18. Do arguments, disappointments or frustrations create within you an urge to go to 2+2?
ummmm....no I guess.

19. Did you ever have an urge to celebrate any good fortune by a few hours of 2+2?
no

20. Have you ever considered self destruction or suicide as a result of your poker?
Yes. I think 2+2 is a form of self-destruction in and of itself.



12 yesses.

[OrangeKing]

Only 2 or 3 yes answers for me! No wonder I can't beat anything over .5/1. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Zetack]

I'm only yes on two of them.

12. Yeah, I don't like to spend my bankroll on other things.
This is one of the questions where putting poker in place of gambling probably isn't a good fit though...for -ev gambling your "gambling money" comes out of the money you would ordinarily spend on other things. In Poker it comes out of your poker winnings (assuming you are a winning player). Since its self generating in poker you aren't robbing your daily expenses by keeping your bankroll inviolate.

14. Of course I've played poker longer than planned. Unless you consider that its always in the back of my mind that I might keep playing longer than my main intention, depending on session conditions.

And maybe yes to 3. My fiance and I have had a few arguments and one major fight about poker. But she's generally pretty supportive of it, so its never been a big deal.

Some of my more interesting nos:


4. No I've never felt remorse about poker. Annoyed and frustrated sometimes, but never remorse. Once I was really down for about an hour but I went to bed and felt fine the next morning.


7. I have a schedule for poker so I know when I'm playing next, I don't feel a compulsion to deviate from that. In fact if anything I would stay away if I felt my mood wasn't positive enough to play well. But I've only done that once, and that time I was about two hours late starting, spent 10 mins on waiting lists and realized I really didn't want to play, so I didn't.

8. Same thing after winning. I know when I'm playing next already. No big deal, I don't need to rush back to the table because I'm aclimated to my schedule.

--Zetack

[stir]

Thanks for the link. Cat scratching him when he tries to call with A,4s UTG. Hilarious.

[sourbeaver]

[ QUOTE ]

17. Did poker cause you to have difficulty in sleeping?


[/ QUOTE ]

No, but it burns when I pee.

[Synergistic Explosions]

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If you smoke and want to quit, check out this site ASAP!

http://groups.msn.com/FreedomFromTobaccoQuitSmokingNow/the1st72hours.msnw

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[twistedbeats]

> 1. Did you ever lose time from work or school due to poker?

yes. back when i w*rked, i played all the time while on the clock. so i stopped w*rking

> 2. Has poker ever made your home life unhappy?

i live with other players. one once used my account without my permission and pissed through about 1800. that angered me. another isn't that winning a player and constantly was late on rent.

> 3. Did poker affect your reputation?

yeah. now i have a "cool" job. ladies?

> 4. Have you ever felt remorse after poker?

only when i get broke trying to step up too fast.

> 5. Did you ever play poker to get money with which to pay debts or otherwise solve financial difficulties?

non serious question. insert non serious response

> 6. Did poker cause a decrease in your ambition or efficiency?

see my answer to #1. i used to play all the time at my real j*b.

> 7. After losing did you feel you must return as soon as possible and win back your losses?

irrelevant question.

> 8. After a win did you have a strong urge to return and win more?

irrelevant question

> 9. Did you often play poker until your last dollar was gone?

yes. and also my fpp's and ub points. and play money until i could get a stake.

> 10. Did you ever borrow to finance your poker?

yeah, but i always pay back more than 100%

> 11. Have you ever sold anything to finance poker?

a serious question i can answer no to. how lucky.

> 12. Were you reluctant to use "poker money" for normal expenditures?

Obviously, you haven't heard of the cash out curse.

> 13. Did poker make you careless of the welfare of yourself or your family?

only in the sense that i've given up so much sleep to this game.

> 14. Did you ever play poker longer than you had planned?

irrelevant question.

> 15. Have you ever played poker to escape worry or trouble?

that's actually specifically why i play. otherwise i'd have to you know, be a productive member of society.

> 16. Have you ever committed, or considered committing, an illegal act to finance poker?

whew, another real one i can say no to.

> 17. Did poker cause you to have difficulty in sleeping?

i've never not been able to sleep because of a big loss or been too pumped up after a big win. but there's been plenty of times where i just couldn't fall asleep so went back to the tables.

> 18. Do arguments, disappointments or frustrations create within you an urge to play poker?

yes. my girlfriend w*rks full time and goes to school, thus has little time for me. Often, i'll find myself saying "fine, you don't wanna see me? i'll just gamble."

> 19. Did you ever have an urge to celebrate any good fortune by a few hours of poker?

does breathing count as good fortune? actually the first thing that popped into my mind was the last final i took (either linear algebra or algorithms, i forget.), i completely aced. I was back on the tables inside a half hour.

> 20. Have you ever considered self destruction or suicide as a result of your poker?

suicide? no. well, i've said "i wish i was dead" at least once for every set that's ever been cracked in big bet, but that's not real. self destructive's a lot trickier. i'm a recovering alcoholic, so i used to get ultra drunk after any losing session and just wallow in my sorrows. but i used to get ultra drunk after every winning session to celebrate. so i'm not sure that has anything to do with poker. however, i have been known to punch holes in my wall (drunk or not) after particularly bad beats. and i've always figured that if you're gonna punch a wall, you really shouldn't stop until you see blood. but even this is mostly in the past.


I scored a lot higher on the AA test. the way i see it, the only relavent questions are 2, 4, 11, 13, 16, and 20. and the more you answer yes, the more money you're losing. i answered flippantly but seriously to two of them, but i'm in action, so i'm in the clear.

I've categorized questions 3, 5, 7, 8, 12, 14, 15, 17, 18, and 19 as "Are you a poker player." and questions 9 and 10 as "have you been playing long?" anyone think i've miscategorized?