Just got fired--How bad will this screw up my pending house purchase?

[youtalkfunny]

I put up the deposit, the builder began construction, and now I got fired.

I'm a poker dealer, and we're in demand, so I fully expect to find another job within a few days (the firing was so non-sensical that I'm confident that no prospective employer will hold it against me).

But I had three years at that other job. I was pre-approved for a mortgage, but that was contingent upon the info I put on the application--info that is no longer up-to-date.

Now, when this house is finished, I'll have two months at my current job, instead of three years.

Presume my credit rating to be "just coming back from the grave". I've got a 100% mortgage, but it took some shopping to get one at a palatable rate.

So what do you think? Did I just kiss that deposit goodbye?

(The idea of not getting this dream house is more disappointing than losing money on this deal--and no, I cannot afford to put more money down.)

[[censored]]

I remember when applying for a loan (not a mortgage) that the lender was concerned with the time I had in my industry and not at specific employer. If you can get another job in the same industry for the same wages then I think you should be fine.

Why did you get fired?

[Mano]

If you do in fact get a comparable job fairly quickly you should still be able to get a loan, but you may not get quite as good a rate.

[usmfan]

CAVEAT: I'm no real estate attorney so take this for what it's worth.
Is your mortgage company going to know at any time prior to the conversion from a construction loan to permanent financing? I'm assuming the constr. loan is in place or else the construction wouldn't have started, right? You should have someone review the papers you've already signed regarding your duty to notify the lender of any changes. Further, the more disbursements that the lender makes on the loan, the more "vested" they become in seeing that someone takes the house and begins making payments upon completion.
I echo what's already been said that as long as you have a new job in the same field at the same pay, your lender is unlikely to care. What's key is knowing your duty to inform them of changed information.

[Dangergirl]

This can be complicated and it all depends. When the underwriter is getting the docs ready to begin finalizing the loan, they will most likely call to verify employment. As long as you can get a job fairly quickly, then this shouldn't be a problem. But when the mortgage lender does finalize everything they will do this.

The reason I say this, is my bf works in the mortgage industry and not too long ago something similar happened. There was this guy who was in the final stages of closing this loan. However, he had just quit his job and decided to be self employed that same week. When the underwriter had someone in the closing department verify his employment, they couldn't do it and he was not given the loan after all. So find a job asap.

[mike l.]

4 words:

no doc no down

and if you cant find a mortgage broker that can do it for you look harder because everything can be done.

[peachy]

if u get another job soon and talk with them about it...unless they r a total jerkwad, u SHOULD be ok. Dont claim u were "fired" unless u cant help it...i dunno the situation in which u left that job though

[James Boston]

You don't have to answer this if you don't want to, but I'm just curious what happened. You were certainly one of the better dealers at that casino.

Let me know where you end up.

[Voltron87]

- Disclaimer - I have no idea what I'm talking about -



I would assume that if you have another job by the time they find out you lost your job that you're in the clear.

[SossMan]

as long as it's in the same industry and they can verify employment history from your new and old jobs, you should be fine.

[Randy_Refeld]

Some things never cease to amaze me. I think you can probably get your new job report that change and not mention that you were fired. Your former employer doesn't have much of a reputation in the poker world so I wouldn't worry about that.

RR

[Byrn]

Depends on what "coming back form the grave" means. If you get another job quickly doing the same job at the same pay you should be fine. It depends on the specific lender though, since you had to shop in the first place I'm assuming you were slightly tougher to place - that being said continuous employment could be one of your lender's conditions.

The lender will verify all employment, so don't try to fool anyone. Assuming the deposit is with the builder and the mortgage is with a broker (ie the deposit isn't tied to the mortgage), be upfront with the broker. If he tries to raise the rate, shop around some more. I would guess you had to pay to get a long term rate lock, in which case you could be at the broker's mercy a little bit. He could raise the rate on you even if the lender doesn't - depends on his ethical standards.

As another person mentioned, a no doc loan might work, but if your credit is ugly you may not be able to get 100%, and if you can the rate will likely be brutal.

I do some work as a mortgage broker - if you have any other specific questions feel free to pm me. If you feel like you are getting jerked around pm me, I might be able to do a little research into the lender's policies for you (don't worry, not trying to get your business - I can't do outside of CT). From my experience getting a broker to treat you fairly and squarely is hit or miss, mostly miss.

[youtalkfunny]

First off, thanks to all who replied.

Is your mortgage company going to know at any time prior to the conversion from a construction loan to permanent financing? I'm assuming the constr. loan is in place or else the construction wouldn't have started, right?

No construction loan. The builder specializes in developments for first-time home buyers. I picked out a lot and a floorplan, got a lender to send them a letter that I'm pre-approved, put up $500 deposit, and they're building the house. I also put up another $800 to cover the costs of specific things that I ordered (such as hardwood floors in the dining room and entry) that would increase the cost of the house without adding much to the value--IOW, make the house tougher for them to find a buyer if I back out of the deal.

Again, losing that $1300 wouldn't be devastating (out of sight, out of mind--I wrote those checks last SUMMER). But waiting and waiting for the developer to wrap up the red tape before they could begin construction, then watching this thing go up so quickly in just a couple of weeks--it would suck the life out of me to be told that I can't get an affordable mortgage now.

--Why did you get fired?

--You don't have to answer this if you don't want to, but I'm just curious what happened. You were certainly one of the better dealers at that casino.

OK, this is my best effort at making a long story short:

It's 5 AM, and there's a three-handed 1-2 NLHE game going. Yeah, I know, I thought we weren't going to spread 1-2 NL any more. Why expect this crazy place to make a decision and stick with it?

Anyways, as soon as I sit down to deal this game, the players ask me if I'm aware of the reduced rake (the preceding dealer should have told me, but he didn't). I called the floorman before I dealt the first card, and he confirmed that the rake had been reduced to $1 max.

After 30 minutes, I was pushed out of that game by Dealer X. I told him about the $1 rake, and went on about my business.

The next day, I found out that Dealer X had been fired. The story was that the other players suggested to him that if he didn't take a rake, they would tip him the $1 instead. Again, that was the gossip--I have no first-hand knowledge of WHAT happened at that table after I left. The only thing I know for sure was that Dealer X was fired, and it pertained to that NL game.

My supervisor asked me if I had relayed the instructions about the reduced rake to Dealer X. I had. "What exactly did you tell him?" I told him, "One dollar rake, X," and he acknowledged that he heard and understood me by repeating, "One dollar rake." My supervisor asked me if I would be willing to sign a statement affirming all this if asked to do so, and I had no problem with that, but they never asked me for a written statement.

A few days later, I was told to report to the Investigations section of the Security office, to be interviewed by an investigator looking into this situation. I thought it was pretty crummy of them to ask a guy to work from 9 PM to 5 AM, then return at 10 AM for a conversation. But I understood the gravity of the situation, and being a good company man, I went home after work and stayed up all morning so that I would not miss my 10 AM appointment.

The investigator asked me about that NL game. He got me to say that I was a good dealer, not some inexperienced break-in, but someone who is familiar with all the procedures to be followed. He asked me what the rake should have been in that game. He asked me if I had been made the same offer (tips in exchange for no rake), and I told him truthfully that I hadn't. He asked me if I knew any of the players, and I replied that I had never seen any of them before.

He then read to me the section of the dealer handbook that says the dealer is not to make any decisions about reducing the rake, that only the floorman can make that decision. I thought it was funny that he read that to me, because I had just finished saying it at least three times, when explaining poker procedures to him.

His tone then changed, and he triumphantly sprang his little trap: "What if I told you that we have you on videotape, NOT taking the rake on three separate hands? At 4:32 AM, 4:41 AM, and 4:53 AM? What would you say about that?" He asked it like he was daring me to deny it.

I shrugged. I was just told I made $3 worth of errors. "I don't dispute that could've happened."

"Why would you not take the rake those hands? Were you hoping to get better tips?"

At this point, I still didn't realize that I'm the target of his investigation. "God, no," I replied. "The tips were HORRIBLE at that table. I didn't make any money off of those guys."

"Then why didn't you take the rake from those pots? Explain that."

"Sloppy dealing. Plain and simple. It was 5 AM, I was tired."

I didn't add that this game was near the end of another 8-table push. If I knew I was on trial, and had time to prepare a proper defense (instead of this trial by ambush), this evidence would certainly have been submitted.

Poker dealers are usually given a break every hour or two, because the job requires such intense concentration that no one can keep it up for hours at a time. On this night, I started at 9 PM; got a break around 1 AM; and didn't get another until I went home at around 6 AM. OF COURSE my concentration was lagging. But I didn't make what I would consider to be any major errors--I still did a pretty good job, IMO. I didn't over-rake a single pot (poker dealers are taught that over-raking is a far more serious offense than under-raking, because the Gaming Commission doesn't like over-raking, but no one worries about a dollar or two getting missed).

(Neither of the preceding italicized paragraphs was part of my conversation with the investigator.)

The investigator accepted my answer. He then asked me to write out a statement, detailing our conversation that I just described above. I wrote it out, signed it, and when I was finished, the poker manager came in with the termination paperwork, which included checkmarks in the boxes next to "Failure to follow company procedure" and "Dishonesty". My photo was taken, and I was 86'd from the boat.

I'm almost 40 years old. I've never been fired in my adult life. I had never been accused of stealing before.

Of course, many of you reading this are thinking, "There's got to be more to it than that!" I'm sure there is, but damned if I know what it could be.

--I went out looking for work today. On the Job History part of the application that says, "Reason for leaving", I had to put, "I made a $3 dealer error (no fooling!)." The young lady working in HR read this, laughed, and said, "Somebody over there must have a relative who wants your job." I laughed--she didn't. She assured me that practice was more common than I knew.

--The poker manager expressed concern that I might have hard feelings toward the investigator. "Why should I be mad at him?", I asked. "He didn't fire me."

--They made it clear that the entire affair was confidential. Yeah, if my actions stunk that bad, I'd want to hide them, too. I was told that I could see an Associate Relations rep and appeal (just about everyone who gets fired from this pokerroom, except for the caught-red-handed thieves, gets re-instated), but I'm not the kind of person who goes where he's not wanted.

If I can't catch on somewhere else quickly, then it's Oklahoma here I come!

(God, I don't want to move AGAIN! I'm getting too old for this [censored].)

--Again, thanks to all who replied.

[Sponger15SB]

well, if i were management you'd pretty much look guity as sin and have to be fired.

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
the poker manager came in with the termination paperwork, which included checkmarks in the boxes next to "Failure to follow company procedure" and "Dishonesty". My photo was taken, and I was 86'd from the boat.

[/ QUOTE ]

The key to this is that the poker manager has never worked in a professionally managed poker room.

Randy Refeld

[Mansavage]

I have been a mortgage broker for three years now and specialize ni 100% purchases. Bottom line is this: if you can find a job within a month and that new job will verify that you are guaranteed full time wages, you will be fine.

Same industry, no lag time between jobs (one month is fine), same type of pay (hourly + tips) and a few paycheck stubs will be enough for just about any underwriter.

[pshreck]

[ QUOTE ]
well, if i were management you'd pretty much look guity as sin and have to be fired.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly what I thought. You didnt collect 3 separate times in one hour? If I'm your manager and I don't fire you, then I am not doing a good job. You chalk it up to a '3 dollar error', but its more symbolic of potential errors of repeatedly not collecting rake. How is management supposed to believe its just that you are tired each time.

Sorry for not being supportive, I am just giving an honest response from the info given.

[razor]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry for not being supportive, I am just giving an honest response from the info given.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you miss the part where he was only given one break in the time between starting work and when these mistakes occurred?

[pshreck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry for not being supportive, I am just giving an honest response from the info given.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you miss the part where he was only given one break in the time between starting work and when these mistakes occurred?

[/ QUOTE ]

Didnt miss it.

Key thing is, three seperate times is unacceptable. At that point, there is no reasonable excuse.

[Stu Pidasso]

If they fired the other dealer for not taking a rake, they can't give a pass for the same offense.

Stu

[Randy_Refeld]

[ QUOTE ]
well, if i were management you'd pretty much look guity as sin and have to be fired.


[/ QUOTE ]

Missing 3 rakes in half an hour is not THAT unusual. In california it is harder to miss the collection becasue it is not based on the size of the pot. A few things to consider in this case is this dealer has a history of being very trustworthy and is technically acurate. The management of this poker room is unfamiliar with proper dealer procedures, so it is not a given that a rake SHOULD have been taken in these pots. When there is no flop there is no rake; when the pot does not reach a certain size there is no rake; if the action occurs quickly to where the dealer is not able to discretly take a rake there should be no rake (one player bets, second player call, first player turbo mucks there is no rake on this pot becasue the dealer needs to push it to the winner andi t is offensive to the player to rake it now that there is a winner). I know the original poster and would give him a wonderful recomendation if he needs it (he has worked for me in both Las Vegas and Tunica).

Randy Refeld

[razor]

[ QUOTE ]
At that point, there is no reasonable excuse.

[/ QUOTE ]

If any reasonably competent dealer can deal mistake free 3 hours after his/her last and only break and 7 hours after starting work then I agree... but I'm not a dealer so I have no idea.

[kemystery]

[ QUOTE ]
well, if i were management you'd pretty much look guity as sin and have to be fired.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you see the tape? Is is possible that being a 1-2 blinds game that the pots in those listed hands, didn't reach the the minimum level to be raked? If the rake is charged @ $10 then it's very possible that there was even less of a mistake committed

I don't know where you work, but that place sucks

[kemystery]

[ QUOTE ]


Missing 3 rakes in half an hour is not THAT unusual. In california it is harder to miss the collection becasue it is not based on the size of the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I work @ a reservation Casino in CA. and we rake $3 @ $10 in all flop games w/ 7 or more players seated. $2/6 players $1/5, these adjustments are made by requesting the adjustment throught the floorman. Our rule is interpeted as such; $1 jackpot drop + $9 in pot = $3 rake. I have pushed many $9 pots w/out raking, if the game is tight and getting stiffed is the order of the down, I rake EVERY qualified pot. In a three handed baby limit game that is 'tight' after I've come off of 5 straight downs, I'm calling for a lid and having the guys draw - no way I risk my job for an extra $1 or so. One time this stuck broad actually asked if she could have the rake before I dropped it, I said 'Why would I risk my job to give you a lousy $3 bucks, even if you tipped me all of it, I'd look like a moron for losing my job because I wanted $3. I may deal poker lady, but I'm not as stupid as that may or may not imply.'

[youtalkfunny]

[ QUOTE ]
If any reasonably competent dealer can deal mistake free 3 hours after his/her last and only break and 7 hours after starting work then I agree... but I'm not a dealer so I have no idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

If reasonably competent dealers could do that, they wouldn't be given all those breaks.

When you go to school, any school, no class lasts more than one hour--because your brain can't maintain a high level of concentration for periods of time longer than that.

Also, some have asked if I've seen the tape and verified that the three hands in question should have been raked. I did not. But I was told that one of the hands lasted at least two minutes, so it's likely that that hand should have been raked. Again, I did not dispute that it could have happened.

Folks, I appreciate all the responses. It seems that those who are familiar with the business side of poker see things my way, and those who aren't, don't.

I'd be interested to see the opinions of more people who work in poker (of COURSE I'd be interested in more sympathetic posts!).

At this point, I'm going to shut my mouth, because I need to find another dealing job to make this home purchase possible, and the last thing I need is an internet post costing me a potential job. I haven't ruled out the possibility that my posting at a site that never says anything positive about the Grand's poker room factored into this bizarre decision (even though I had never personally posted anything negative about the place, until this thread).

I actually helped one supervisor there search this very site for some of the negative posts about the room, just days before getting the ax.

[Randy_Refeld]

I typed a fairly lengthy reply to this that has disappeared on posting so I will write a brief recap of what I wrote. Dealers that are weak dealers have been written up multiple times for missing rakes (not rumor, I was the supervisor that signed off on it), and the floorman should be fired for allowing dealer X to not rake for half an hour (I am assuming he was doing his job of monitoring the action in the room; I guess that isn't a given at the Grand).

[kemystery]

[ QUOTE ]
the Grand's poker room

[/ QUOTE ]

in Bakersfield? If they canned the Polish guy, managment has no clue